Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian rules football: Difference between revisions

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:The current discussion regarding appropriate protocol is at [[Talk:Captain (Australian rules football)#Redirection]]. Should anyone wish to contribute. [[Special:Contributions/~2025-31245-28|~2025-31245-28]] ([[User talk:~2025-31245-28|talk]]) 23:25, 6 December 2025 (UTC)

==Brisbane Lions premierships==

[[User:Rito Skeeto|Rito Skeeto]] has changed [[Brisbane Lions]] to include Fitzroy’s premierships in the infobox. Per their edit summary, “If you wish to check the legal document, (https://viclions.wordpress.com/news/the-deed/), a contract, the Brisbane Lions claim all premierships as their own. The club also say as such. (https://www.lions.com.au/news/27827/a-history-of-premierships) their own. This is not a matter of consensus.”

However, the merged club aren’t credited with Fitzroy’s premierships in sources like the ”AFL Record” ([https://issuu.com/lifestyle1-media/docs/argf_digital_edition see page 134 here]). I am also concerned that, if we consider the premierships to belong to the merged club, it surely also follows that, on several occasions from 1986 to 1996, the club both lost to and defeated themselves. Any thoughts would be appreciated. [[User:Jjamesryan|Jjamesryan]] ([[User talk:Jjamesryan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jjamesryan|contribs]]) 15:41, 31 January 2026 (UTC)

I intend to nominate this article Sydney Swans Grand Finals in the 21st century, (as well as its original, incorrectly spelled title, Swannywobles) for deletion. The article’s current flaws are fairly clear – it’s a soft WP:POVFORK and largely WP:SYNTHesised. Even if those current issues are fixed, I still see it as wholly redundant to Sydney Swans#History.

However, I can’t go to an AfD and argue that it fails WP:GNG because there are plenty of references out there documenting Sydney’s five 2014–2024 grand final losses as a standalone topic.

My view is that it should fail WP:PROJFORK, i.e. our project’s overall lack of forks which cover general eras of club success or failure. There are many club eras of success or failure which would have similar or better quality of standalone referencing to this Sydney example (Hawthorn 80s success, Geelong 1989–1995 grand final losses, Melbourne 1965–1986 finals drought, North Melbourne’s 1974–1978 after the 10-year-rule) – I’m pretty sure I could build GNG-compliant articles on them all, but I don’t think it would be appropriate to do so when the club history sections cover them anyway.

So: question to the project team – do you agree? Can we make a project consensus one way or the other on the desirability of this type of content fork?

(For WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS purposes, we do have Colliwobbles and Kennett curse as our nearest equivalents. Those have coverage and cultural impact far above any of the other general examples and I don’t think those articles’ existence would be up for debate.) Aspirex (talk) 10:00, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Prompting the project again, any thoughts on this subject? Aspirex (talk) 22:53, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

there are plenty of references out there documenting Sydney’s five 2014–2024 grand final losses as a standalone topic Are there really? References that discuss the set of losses itself as a distinct topic, as opposed to sources discussing each individual loss or discussing them as part of general Sydney history? I’d be a bit surprised. Other than that I agree with your take, I’d go ahead and make the case at AfD. – Teratix ₵ 15:37, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In editing Bernie Neenan (11 games 1940-42) I noticed that there was also a Frank Neenan, who played five games for North Melbourne in 1936. Investigating, I see that both came from the old CYMS Football Association and then found this death notice from 1938 of Mary Neenan, who lists a Bernard and a Frank as two of her sons.

Do people think we’ve got enough to declare them brothers? Roisterer (talk) 10:12, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, your original research is impressive but we need a reliable source that explicitly says it. HiLo48 (talk) 22:07, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve just removed redlinks from Template:Tasmania_Football_Club_VFL_squad and Template:Tasmania_Football_Club_VFL_Women’s_squad – just confirming this is correct for VFL players (some were past AFL players who already have articles, so I’ve left them). I don’t typically edit Aussie rules content so just wanted to confirm this was correct (VFL is not fully professional). As an aside, I notice none of the other VFL clubs have these templates – should they? Or is it just part of the WP:RECENTISM (and the fact it’s an AFL club that isn’t filling it’s main squad yet) that makes people keen to populate this article with details? — Chuq (talk) 03:16, 7 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

VFL or VFLW players are highly unlikely to meet GNG on the basis of their participation in those leagues alone, so removing redlinks as a default position for those templates makes sense. I would also weak agree that those templates aren’t of appropriate importance for the page based on their absence from other articles (Frankston was the only VFL club which had one when I spot checked a few). Aspirex (talk) 03:32, 7 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @Aspirex:, I’ll continue to delink any red links. I’ll leave the templates for now – it’s an unusual arrangement of being the most senior team of an AFL club (but not an AFL team). — Chuq (talk) 03:14, 10 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

They’re not an AFL club yet. They’re expected to join in 2028 (and the AFLW in 2027). I don’t think the templates are needed or notable enough as other VFL clubs don’t have them (standalone clubs too). —SuperJew (talk) 07:14, 10 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have plenty of sources that say that the North Melbourne AFLW has won 28 games straight with its win in the 2025 AFL Women’s Grand Final, but I don’t think it is true… while they haven’t lost a game since the 2023 AFL Women’s Grand Final against Brisbane, the round 2 clash against Geelong in September 2024 was a draw. [1] Should we just follow the sources? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:21, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No. When it’s obvious the sources are wrong, we do better. WE write “…has lost lost a game since…” That tells the truth without contradicting the sources. HiLo48 (talk) 23:08, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, we do verifiable truth. Most articles have been technically true saying things like 2 unbeaten seasons (a draw isn’t a loss) or 27 wins in a row (since the draw). Maybe some part time commentators have mixed that up when reporting, but we stick with the verifiable truth. The-Pope (talk) 23:42, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I’ve changed “The club became the first male or female VFL/AFL team to win 24 consecutive games” to “The club became the first male or female VFL/AFL team to go undefeated for 24 consecutive games” in the article on the 2025 AFL Women’s Grand Final. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:49, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:When sources are wrong. Commander Keane (talk) 00:13, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

One thing I have to bring up, I have to bring up whether Captain (Australian rules football) should be a soft or hard redirect because I frankly myself believe this should be a soft redirect per this discussion. Looking at the diffs: [2] there has been some moving back and forth so to avoid a further edit war, I am bringing this to discussion. Another option would be to take it to deletion review to see if there would be any review on whether it should be soft redirect, non soft redirect or possibly even a merge. Servite et contribuere (talk) 22:30, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The current discussion regarding appropriate protocol is at Talk:Captain (Australian rules football)#Redirection. Should anyone wish to contribute. ~2025-31245-28 (talk) 23:25, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rito Skeeto has changed Brisbane Lions to include Fitzroy’s premierships in the infobox. Per their edit summary, “If you wish to check the legal document, (https://viclions.wordpress.com/news/the-deed/), a contract, the Brisbane Lions claim all premierships as their own. The club also say as such. (https://www.lions.com.au/news/27827/a-history-of-premierships) their own. This is not a matter of consensus.”

However, the merged club aren’t credited with Fitzroy’s premierships in sources like the AFL Record (see page 134 here). I am also concerned that, if we consider the premierships to belong to the merged club, it surely also follows that, on several occasions from 1986 to 1996, the club both lost to and defeated themselves. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Jjamesryan (talk | contribs) 15:41, 31 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

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