Talk:Commonwealth of Nations/Archive 1: Difference between revisions

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:The Queen and the Governor-General has as much power as a hamster! [[Special:Contributions/2600:1002:B163:30D6:1C7:E0EC:2E2:F7D|2600:1002:B163:30D6:1C7:E0EC:2E2:F7D]] ([[User talk:2600:1002:B163:30D6:1C7:E0EC:2E2:F7D|talk]]) 19:03, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

::The Australian Governor-General sacked the Prime Minister in 1975. Some powerful hamster. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 03:28, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

== Southwestern United States ==

The Southwestern United States consists of Utah, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona and some states that are sometimes considered Southwestern like Texas, Oklahoma, and California. [[Special:Contributions/65.130.51.127|65.130.51.127]] ([[User talk:65.130.51.127|talk]]) 03:20, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

:What does that have to do with the Commonwealth of Nations? [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 03:29, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

What exactly IS the British Commonwealth these days, anyway? I mean, what does it do? What power does it wield, if any?

Not a lot. Occasionally they put pressure on members who are seen to be misbehaving: Nigeria was recently threatened with expulsion over its civil rights record, and pressure put on Pakistan and India over the build of tensions over Kashmir.

Do member nations get together from time to time?

Yes, there are “commonwealth conferences” of the heads of states of member nations. There is also the “Commonwealth Games”, a mini-Olympics for member states, which also encompasses sports such as bowls and cricket. Naturally, Australia always win everything 🙂

I seem to remember that a place in Australia called the
‘Hutt River Province’ recently tried to declare itself semi-independant from Australia. It appealed somehow through legal channels to England.

The international legal situation is clear since the passing of parallel acts of Parliament in Australia and England in the 1980’s. The Australian High Court is the supreme legal authority for all Australian territory, and appeals to British courts are now impossible. The Hutt River Province got laughed out of court. —Robert Merkel

Note to all who might be confused by the move to “The Commonwealth”: check out http://www.thecommonwealth.org, “The Commonwealth” is the correct name these days, not “British Commonwealth” or “Commonwealth of Nations”. —Robert Merkel

Is the Commonwealth really an international organization? I’m pretty sure it does not possess legal personality under international law — there is no treaty establishing AFAIK. In which case it is not an international organization, but simply an informal grouping of states like G-7 or G-77 or NAM. — SJK

I think it was me who put “international organization” a long ago
because I did’t think of any better term. Maybe it is wrong, so
i replaced it by “voluntary asssociation….etc” what is the
language they use in the website mentioned before.

“International organisation” is perfectly legitimate, although the Commonwealth lacks any supranational authority (i.e. the power to tell governments what they can do): “voluntary association” is nicer, I think, and more expressive of how members relate to the whole. – David Parker

I disagree with calling it an international organization. I’d only call it an international intergovernmental organization if it has legal personality under international law. Presence or absence of “supranational authority” has little or nothing to do with the issue of legal personality. — SJK

Please define legal personality, SJK. Thanks. – DP

Hello all! I am today embarking on the laborious process of creating an audio file through Wikipedia:WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. —Justin J. Liu (Dylan Smithson) (talk) 04:40, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello friends! I have completed the spoken article, please review it and provide suggestions? On any non-mobile format, it seems that the little speaker icon redirects to part 3 first. As this is my first time, it would be fantastic if one were to help…fix that? Thanks!Justin J. Liu (Dylan Smithson) (talk) 17:10, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I have taken it down for concerns it does not meet the sufficient criteria; I am the original author and feel it has the potential for misinterpretation. —JJ Liu (Dylan Smithson) (talk) 02:23, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi JJ Liu (Dylan Smithson), what was wrong with it? CMD (talk) 03:01, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

A lot of the words were mispronounced, the third file caused a page overflow and I think I did not do the best job I, or another contributor could have. I spoke quite abruptly at times, and did not use an audio editor; Audacity, for example. I used the technological marvel of a microphone that was…my phone and overall it didn’t feel natural. American English is not my natural dialect, as well. At the time, I was quite insecure of the way my voice sounded. I realise these complaints may sound quite petty, but considering the Spoken Articles project is now actually active (in December 2019 it very much was not), I think someone could, and should do this article more justice. —JJ Liu (Dylan Smithson) (talk) 03:09, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

If you say so, it didn’t sound too bad to me. I don’t see why you would have to change from your natural dialect, although again it sounded fine to me. Best of luck, CMD (talk) 03:26, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

The Commonwealth of Nations now has 54 members – with the addition of The Maldives on 1 February 2020. Please update the Commonwealth Flag which should have 54 member symbols forming the “C”. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.156.124 (talk) 10:32, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

The 34 marks around the globe do not represent the number of members. MilborneOne (talk) 10:48, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

The official Commonwealth Secretariat website explicitly states: “The radiating spears do not represent the number of countries in the Commonwealth but symbolise the many facets of Commonwealth cooperation around the world.” The original flag had 61 radiating spears, for example, but there have never been 61 members. The new flag since 2013 has 34 spears. There are more than 34 members. It seems overwhelming, then, that the spears do not have any relation to the number of members in the Commonwealth.Justin J. Liu (Dylan Smithson) (talk) 17:16, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Justin J. Liu (Dylan Smithson). Please add that to #Symbols. Errantius (talk) 20:46, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:06, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

I was searching for information on the following matter, which I think should be found in this article as well: Australia and Canada became fully “independent” from UK government and parliament only in the 1980s with the Australia and Canada act, respectively. When did this process happen for other Commonwealth nations? Are there any Commonwealth realms (or even republics) left where UK parliament and government still hold some rights?–Oudeístalk 16:25, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

See British Overseas Territories for a list of countries where the British government retains some sovereignty, Commonwealth realm for a list of countries where the British monarch is head of state and Judicial Committee of the Privy Council for those where the final court of appeal is British. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:47, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

I see no evidence of a link between Chinde and Mozambique’s membership of the Commonwealth. Material that is never mentioned in relation to the Commonwealth of Nations does not belong in this article. DrKay (talk) 20:56, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Example:

  The government of Barbados announced on 15 September 2020 that it intends to become a republic by 30 November 2021, the 55th anniversary of its independence. If the plan is achieved (with a two-thirds majority vote in both houses of Parliament), "Leave the monarchy? In Barbados, that's just the first step on a long path to healing". Retrieved 18 March 2021.  ....

   Barbados would then cease to be a Commonwealth realm, but will maintain membership in the Commonwealth of Nations. "Barbados to become an Independent Republic in 2021". Caribbean Culture and Lifestyle. 2020-09-15. Retrieved 2020-09-15.

   .... A BBC News report stated that Guyana, as well as Trinidad and Tobago, already had such a relationship with the UK: a "loose association of former British colonies and current dependencies". "Barbados to remove Queen Elizabeth as head of state". Retrieved 18 March 2021. 
Peter K Burian (talk) 13:07, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I cant see anything there that relates to the Commonwealth of Nations, proposed changes of head of state is not really relevant to the group. MilborneOne (talk) 14:53, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Have Togo & Gabon joined the Commonwealth? GoodDay (talk) 17:47, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Oui. Peter Ormond 💬 17:51, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Amazing. Gabon has been ruled by kleptocrat Omar Bongo for 42 years. Now his son and successor Ali got himself admitted into the Commonwealth by Kagame, the autocrat of Rwanda. Oh dear, oh dear…–Lubiesque (talk) 02:01, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Angola could well be next. I recall the President of Angola declaring that Boris Johnson, the then British Foreign Minister, had invited his country to join the Commonwealth. For good measure Angola was also considering joining the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie.–Lubiesque (talk) 02:22, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

How about USA and Ireland? Laney145 (talk) 12:44, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Ireland left in 1948/1949 after it became a republic, while the USA became independent long before the idea of the Commonwealth was thought of and presumably has shown little interest in joining. CMD (talk) 13:37, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Both are still eligible to apply to join, should they wish. HiLo48 (talk) 02:37, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

The Commonwealth recently admitted the former French colonies of Gabon and Togo so certainly the US and Ireland — or Sweden, or Bolivia or South Korea or Mexico for that matter — are eligible to join since obviously the the admission criteria, a constitutional link to Great Britain, is now ignored. And Gabon is not even a democracy. The Commonwealth is increasingly a free-for-all gimmick. Lubiesque (talk) 21:08, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

To date, no commonwealth realm has left the organisation. Perhaps that could be included on this page. GoodDay (talk) 18:15, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I don’t think that’s justifiable given the withdrawal of the Gambia and Pakistan. Didn’t Fiji and South Africa leave when they deposed the Queen? Members of the Commonwealth of Nations says they did. DrKay (talk) 19:04, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Those countries became republics, though. GoodDay (talk) 19:13, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I’m not convinced the opening claim is citable or noteworthy and would only be convinced by the provision of multiple independent secondary sources. DrKay (talk) 19:20, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Clarifying. AFAIK, no country has left the organisation & remained a monarchy or kept the same monarch. If (for example) Canada left the Commonwealth & retained its monarchy & monarch. Would that be a first? GoodDay (talk) 19:22, 19 August 2022 (UTC) Underlined text inserted at 19:38, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

No. DrKay (talk) 19:25, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Was Rhodesia already an independent country, when it left the Commonwealth in 1965? It appears vague as to ‘when’ the departure occurred. GoodDay (talk) 19:33, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I remain unconvinced that this is citable or noteworthy, and therefore am against inclusion. DrKay (talk) 19:41, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Understood & therefore I won’t attempt to include it. Just wanted to point out, that it’s not mentioned in the article. We mention that the Commonwealth changed their rules so that an independent country can remain, after it becomes a republic. But we don’t mention what occurs if a independent country leaves, but retains it monarchy & Elizabeth II (or her successors) as its monarch. GoodDay (talk) 19:47, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

@GoodDay Rhodesia was previously not an independent country but rather the self-governing colony of Southern Rhodesia and only had membership in the Commonwealth by virtue of it being a British territory. When it declared independence that I believe would be its de facto secession from the Commonwealth since it no longer recognised Britain’s sovereignty over it, though Rhodesia’s claim of independence was not recognised by Britain nor by the international community at large. thorpewilliam (talk) 11:58, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

So ‘to date’, no independent realm has ever left the Commonwealth, retaining its monarchy & keeping Elizabeth as its monarch. GoodDay (talk) 13:08, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Correct sir. All Commonwealth realms are members of the Commonwealth of Nations. thorpewilliam (talk) 10:20, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Due to the recent death of Queen Elizabeth the second and the succession of her son, Charles, the section on the head of commonwealth will need to be rewritten, with correct citations. ShortyMcShortFace (talk) 21:25, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I’m sure it will be, but it takes time. BilCat (talk) 22:47, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Naturally, I just thought I would bring it up. ShortyMcShortFace (talk) 01:59, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

No problem. BilCat (talk) 02:54, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Is Charles now the Head of the Commonwealth? I know that in 2018 the statement here said: “The next Head of the Commonwealth shall be His Royal Highness Prince Charles, The Prince of Wales.” But, nothing was said about whether that would happen automatically, or immediately, upon Elizabeth’s death. It was a statement of intent, and I have seen nothing to say that it has already been implemented (as at 0800 on the day after her death). Indeed, the Commonwealth website here at the time of writing says: “Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is Head of the Commonwealth.” It has not been updated. I have seen no public statement from the Commonwealth secretariat. The post is not hereditary. There may well need to be some process of formal ratification of the succession. We, as editors, should not jump the gun or make too many assumptions. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:19, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

As Charles III has now been admitted by the Commonwealth website to be Head of the Commonwealth, this point is now moot, and should be moved to the archives. GreenDemonSquid (talk) 02:32, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Per WP:INFOBOXFLAG, it’s generally not a good idea to include flags in an infobox. In this case, it’s a long list of barely visible icons, and really adds nothing but decorations. Please do not restore them without a clear consensus to do so. Thanks. BilCat (talk) 01:01, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@BilCat The list of countries is long and the inclusion of flags imo makes it much easier to identify and differentiate the countries on it, as this can be done visually rather than by reading their names. As such it serves a purpose. thorpewilliam (talk) 08:09, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I concur. Creepershark77 (talk) 17:21, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

When the flags are only a couple pixels wide, I find it hard to believe that they actually help with navigation. It’s in alphabetical order; it’s easy to find the nation you’re looking for. That’s how people search everywhere outside of Wikipedia. We put flags everywhere here and then try to justify their worth as navigational aids. Thrakkx (talk) 17:54, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I can identify them just fine, because they are both simplistic and are (usually) distinct enough to tell apart as icons. Also, sometimes lists can be hard navigate when they are really long, even when sorted alphabetically, as it’s easy to accidentally skip something when it’s just a wall of text. Creepershark77 (talk) 18:06, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Flags in infoboxes are almost always a bad idea except when there are just one or two (the flag of Guatemala in the Guatemala infobox for instance). My main objection is that they attract undue attention. —Lubiesque (talk) 14:04, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Exactly. MOS:TOOMANY also applies here. BilCat (talk) 19:33, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I assuming that war infoboxes are the exception of course, like for the Seven Years War. Creepershark77 (talk) 20:57, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

In my opinion, no. BilCat (talk) 22:46, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

The list is collapsed by default, which negates them attracting undue attention. thorpewilliam (talk) 00:44, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Should drop little mini flag icons that aren’t visible being so small… and this is not collapse for more than 60% of our readers. Moxy–

13:23, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

This list is not collapsible for mobile users, who constitute 60% of readers. That’s the figure Moxy is referring to. Thrakkx (talk) 20:51, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

@Thrakkx I see. Well for me, using either an external monitor or the 13″ screen on my laptop, the flags are easily discernible and offer much easier & quicker identification of countries than do their names. Cheers, thorpewilliam (talk) 01:58, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

That’s very handy that the flags work for you. Moxy and I saying that for a clear majority of readers, they don’t work. I would certainly choose to cater to the majority, rather than to a minority of editors that use desktops and prefer the flags. Thrakkx (talk) 02:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

@Thrakkx They may still be of some use on mobile devices. thorpewilliam (talk) 06:05, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

I’m very confused about the Commonwealth and the government because it seems like they are under the rule of a monarch. User012008 (talk) 22:58, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Some members of the Commonwealth, such as Canada and Australia, share the same monarch as the UK as their head of state. The role is largely ceremonial. They not ruled by the monarch. Other members are republics, who, in a range of different ways, appoint their own heads of state. That British monarch also currently happens to be Head of the Commonwealth, a role that is completely independent of their role as monarch of some members. HiLo48 (talk) 02:52, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

The UK monarch does not rule anyone. She reigns over those Commonwealth countries that have chosen to be monarchies. Those countries all have their own sovereign governments and in every practical sense they rule themselves. But most have constitutional arrangements that require the monarch, or their representative the governor-general, to be consulted on certain matters. The monarch is “advised” by the relevant government to agree to some proposal, and that means he is required to agree. These transactions now take place directly between the government of Australia (say) and the King of Australia, between the government of Canada and the King of Canada, etc etc. The British government is not involved at all. It has no say, except in relation to matters between the Prime Minister of the UK and the King of the UK. There is no “British rule” over other Commonwealth countries. In regards to Commonwealth countries that have chosen to become republics, the only formal connection between them and the UK monarch is that he is the Head of the Commonwealth, and they are members of the Commonwealth, which is like a club where members pursue common goals of peace and friendship. The first three heads of the Commonwealth have been George VI, Elizabeth II and Charles III, but there is no fundamental reason why someone other than the monarch could not be Head in future. — Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 03:24, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

The Queen and the Governor-General has as much power as a hamster! 2600:1002:B163:30D6:1C7:E0EC:2E2:F7D (talk) 19:03, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

The Australian Governor-General sacked the Prime Minister in 1975. Some powerful hamster. HiLo48 (talk) 03:28, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

What does that have to do with the Commonwealth of Nations? HiLo48 (talk) 03:29, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

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