Talk:Falkland Islands English: Difference between revisions

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::I can see your point re FIE, one of the things that sources say about it is how few unified and distinctive features can be identified (this will be in the article eventually too). It has been written about quite a bit by linguists though, because it’s like a micro-study of what happened when Australian and New Zealand English formed, and the differences in these processes and their results are something they are really interested in.[[User:Boynamedsue|Boynamedsue]] ([[User talk:Boynamedsue|talk]]) 19:40, 25 September 2025 (UTC)

::I can see your point re FIE, one of the things that sources say about it is how few unified and distinctive features can be identified (this will be in the article eventually too). It has been written about quite a bit by linguists though, because it’s like a micro-study of what happened when Australian and New Zealand English formed, and the differences in these processes and their results are something they are really interested in.[[User:Boynamedsue|Boynamedsue]] ([[User talk:Boynamedsue|talk]]) 19:40, 25 September 2025 (UTC)

:::Okay, I will keep out from now on, so please go ahead. I think the microcosm point is interesting but with such a small population base and a lack of indigenous people I’m not sure it can be compared to NZ or Australia. There was no significant outside influence affecting the English spoken in the islands other than UK English. Compare, Australia=Aboriginal and large numbers and variety of immigrants; NZ=Australia and Maori; Rhodesia=South Africa etc. Even Pitcairn English with a smaller population base is different, due to its almost total isolation and possibly due to a slightly earlier original form of English. However, I am not an expert. IMO, a better approach to the use of certain words might be to look at pronunciation shifts that unified the English spoken on the islands from that spoken by the original immigrants who would presumably have spoken English variants such as Scottish/Yorkshire/Iris/SE England. This shift happened in NZ. [[User:Roger 8 Roger|Roger 8 Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger 8 Roger|talk]]) 21:09, 25 September 2025 (UTC)

:::Okay, I will keep out from now on, so please go ahead. I think the microcosm point is interesting but with such a small population base and a lack of indigenous people I’m not sure it can be compared to NZ or Australia. There was no significant outside influence affecting the English spoken in the islands other than UK English. Compare, Australia=Aboriginal and large numbers and variety of immigrants; NZ=Australia and Maori; Rhodesia=South Africa etc. Even Pitcairn English with a smaller population base is different, due to its almost total isolation and possibly due to a slightly earlier original form of English. However, I am not an expert. IMO, a better approach to the use of certain words might be to look at pronunciation shifts that unified the English spoken on the islands from that spoken by the original immigrants who would presumably have spoken English variants such as Scottish/Yorkshire/Iris/SE England. This shift happened in NZ. [[User:Roger 8 Roger|Roger 8 Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger 8 Roger|talk]]) 21:09, 25 September 2025 (UTC)

::::I think all of those are valid points, and there is also the question of mobility. There has always been tremendous churn of people in FI, despite there being some very old families. The number of people who moved into Argentina, Uruguay or Chile, sometimes coming back and sometimes not, was really significant in the pre-1960s era. Then there is the constant travelling back and forward to the UK, and new immigrants from there, that has always occurred. In one of the sources it mentions that in 1953 (I think) about 10% of the population left and about 9% arrived. But it’s still true British people often hear Stanley folk as “Australian” and camp-dwellers as sort of “farmery”, so something is definitely going on. There’s some good work on phonetics that I’ll try and get into the article that touches on this.[[User:Boynamedsue|Boynamedsue]] ([[User talk:Boynamedsue|talk]]) 21:30, 25 September 2025 (UTC)

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Phoebechilton.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I’d say this is probably one of the more interesting Falkland topics, although there is little information available.–MacRusgail (talk) 14:16, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I believe there may be some mistake – This is only rated low within WP:South America, which covers the entire continent. With the Falklands task force it is rated mid, this was to give precedence to the high rated Languages of the Falkland Islands, which in turn gives precedence to the top rated Falkland Islanders.
There is no established importance scale for the task force, so I appreciate any input. I’d be willing to consider bumping this up to high and the languages up to top alongside the islanders article, your thoughts?
Within the context of WP:South America’s rating, this is probably the least spoken Language of South America. The importance criteria says:
  • “Low: Subject is not particularly notable or significant even within the field of South America, and may have been included primarily to achieve comprehensive coverage of another topic.“
  • “Mid: Subject contributes to the total subject of the South America WikiProject. Subject may not necessarily be famous.” Ryan4314 (talk) 14:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Right, I get you. Yes, you’re correct in saying it’s pretty low priority if we’re talking about the continent. Although of course, it is perhaps the only real English dialect of South America this side of Brazil (Guyana and Trinidad would count perhaps as some of the few South American English accents/dialects, don’t know about Anglo-Argentines etc) I don’t know what the procedures are for changing the system are though (like so many things on Wikipedia!)–MacRusgail (talk) 18:46, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This are the references:

Begonia R. 2018, Design in Nature Tours of the Falkland Islands. www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-79- ACptEw (30.05.2022). Bell A. and Holmes J. 1992, H‐droppin’: Two sociolinguistic variables in New Zealand English, in “Australian Journal of Linguistics” 12[2], pp. 223-248. Britain D. 2008, The importance of ‘elsewhere’: Looking beyond London and Ireland in the creation of Australian English, Working Paper. Essex Research Reports in Linguistics, University of Essex, Colchester. Britain D. and Sudbury A. 2010, Falkland Islands English, in Schreier D., Trudgill P., Schneider E. and Williams J. (eds.), The Lesser-Known Varieties of English: An Introduction, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, pp.209 – 223. Britain D. and Sudbury A. 2013. Falkland Island English, in Kortmann B. and Lukenheimer K. (eds.), The Mouton World Atlas of Variation in English, De Gruyter Mouton, Berlin, pp.669-676. Cameron J. 1997, Catalysts of change: the impact of war and prosperity on a small island community. Presented at The International Conference on the Cultural Heritage of Islands and Small States, Malta. Channel 5 Belize 2019, Journey to self- determination. www.youtube.com/watch?v=grpjASqJKZQ (30.05.2022). Cockwell H. 2012, Our Islands, Our Home. www.staff.city.ac.uk/p.willetts/SAC/FALKLAND/OIOHOME.PDF (30.05.2022). Ellis A.J. 1889, On Early English Pronunciation: Existing dialectical as compared with West Saxon pronunciation. With two maps of the dialect districts, Trübner. Falkland Islands Government 2006, Falkland Islands Census 2006. nationalarchives.gov.fk/jdownloads/ People/Census%20Information%20Early%20Settlers/Report%20of%20Census%202006.pdf (30.05.2022). Falkland Islands Government 2012a, The Honourable Leona Roberts. www.falklands.gov.fk/assembly/legislative-assembly/members/hon-leona-vidal-roberts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSbWKUqkZKs (30.05.2022). Falkland Islands Government 2012b, Mr Ian Hansen. web.archive.org/web/20120323061632/ http://www.falklands.gov.fk/assembly/Mr_Ian_Hansen.html (30.05.2022). Falkland Islands Government 2014a, Georgina Strange. Case Studies. www.falklands.gov.fk/ourpeople/case-studies/ (30.05.2022). Falkland Islands Government 2014b, Dr Rebecca Edwards. Case Studies. www.falklands.gov.fk/ourpeople/case-studies/ (30.05.2022). Falkland Islands Government 2014c, La Experiencia de Vivir en Las Falklands – Andy. www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpKb9zMnFIQ (30.05.2022). Falkland Islands Government 2014d, The Falklands Experience – Georgina. www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uPDiuSgWeI (30.05.2022). Falkland Islands Government 2016, Falkland Islands Census 2016. falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com /2018/01/falkland_islands_census_2016_-_report_without_data_tables.pdf (30.05.2022). Falkland Islands Television 2019, Falklands Celebrates Margaret Thatcher Day. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pacstc1E6cc (30.05.2022). Falkland Islands Television 2020, Coronavirus-Falklands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o66mZbpp NtM (30.05.2022). Far South Expeditions 2016, Andy Pollar: birding & naturalist guide/photographer. farsouthexp.com/team/andy-pollard/ (30.05.2022). Fieldgate, B. 2007, The Captain’s Steward: Falklands, 1982, Melrose Press, Cambridge. Gordon E. and Maclagan M. 1990, A longitudinal study of the “ear/air” contrasting New Zealand speech, in “Multilingual Matters”, pp.129-148. Gough B.M. 1990. The British reoccupation and colonization of the Falkland Islands, or Malvinas, 1832– 1843, in “Albion” 22[2], pp.261-287. Kachru B. 1985. Standards, Codification and Sociolinguistic Realism: The English Language in the Outer Circle. English in the World: Teaching and Learning the language and the literature, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge. Kerswill P. 2002, Koineization and accommodation, in Chambers J.K., Trudgill P. and Schilling-Estes N. (eds.), The Handbook of Language Variation and Change, Blackwell Publishing, Oxford, pp. 669- 702. 210 MARIA CRISTINA GATTI, CECILIA LAZZERETTI, VERONICA JULIANA SCHMALZ Kerswill P. and Williams A. 2000, Creating a new town koine: Children and language change in Milton Keynes, in “Language in society” 29[1], pp.65-115. Kirkpatrick A. 2010, Introduction, in Kirkpatrick A. (ed.), The Routledge Handbook of World Englishes. Routledge, London, pp. 1-14. Le Page R.B. and Tabouret-Keller A. 1985, Acts of identity: Creole-based approaches to language and ethnicity, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge. Metford J.C.J. 1968, Falklands or Malvinas? The Background to the Dispute in “International Affairs (Royal Institute of International Affairs 1944-)” 44[3], pp. 463-481. Mufwene S.S. 2001, The Ecology of Language: Some Evolutionary Perspectives, in “Ecolinguística e imaginário”, pp. 302-327. Pascoe G. and Pepper P. 2008, Getting it right: The real history of the Falklands/Malvinas: A reply to the Argentine seminar of 3 December 2007. Unpublished manuscript. Royle S.A. 1985, The Falkland Islands, 1833-1876: the establishment of a colony, in “Geographical Journal”, pp. 204-214. Schneider E.W. 2003, The dynamics of New Englishes: From identity construction to dialect birth, in “Language” 79[2], pp. 233-281. Schreier D. 2012, The impact of migratory movements on linguistic systems: transplanted speech communities and varieties from a historical sociolinguistic perspective, in Hernandéz-Compoy J. M. and Conde-Silvestre J. C. (eds.), The Handbook of Historical Sociolinguistics, Blackwell Publishing, Hoboken (NJ), pp.534-551. Spruce J. 1996, Falkland words. Unpublished manuscript. Strange I. 1983, The Falkland Islands (3), David and Charles Publishers, University of Virginia. Sudbury A. 2000, Dialect contact and koneisation in the Falkland Islands: development of a southern hemisphere variety?. Unpublished PhD thesis, University of Essex. Sudbury A. 2001, Is Falkland English a southern hemisphere variety?, in “English World Wide” 22, pp. 55- 80. Sudbury A. 2005, English on the Falklands, in Hickey R. (ed.), Legacies of Colonial English: Studies in Transported Dialects, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, pp. 402-417. Trehearne M. 1978, Falkland Heritage: a Record of a Pioneer Settlement, A.H. Stockwell Publisher, Elm Court, UK. Trudgill P. 2004, New-dialect formation: The inevitability of colonial Englishes, Oxford University Press, Oxford. Trudgill P. 2022, Sociolinguistic variation and change, Edinburgh University Press, Edinburgh. Trudgill P., Gordon E., Lewis G. and Maclagan M. 2000, The role of drift in the formation of native-speaker southern hemisphere Englishes: Some New Zealand evidence, in “Diachronica” 17[1], pp. 111-138. Wakelin M. 1986, English on the Mayflower, in “English Today” 2[4], pp. 30-33. Wells J.C. 1982, Beyond the British Isles. Accents of English, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge. Willetts P. 2003, A Report on the Referendum on the Political Status of the Falkland Island RMVV2001 (talk) 00:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The grammar section lacks details, let alone references. It seems written by an AI. Word order “may” be influenced by Spanish – typical ChatGPT hedging statements, based on hypothetical connections, and backed up by a statement of possibility.

Specific examples and references are in order. Anothermart (talk) 12:51, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was the source used for the Argentine leaning changes made today – here. It is a book about an early gaucha settler. There is a review of the source here. BOOK It might be of some interest if one overlooks some of the distorted historical facts. This is the wrong article for it though. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 19:30, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

However, the source is unreliable on matters of fact, especially around the Lexington raid, so should be read with due care. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 23:49, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At the moment the article is quite poor, it lacks detail and academic sourcing. There have been quite a few academic studies of FI English, which should allow significant expansion.

One such is Rodriguez and Barrientos study on the use of “che” as an identity marker in the islands, published in June 2025 in the peer-reviewed linguistics journal Languages which is a reputable journal with a distinguished editorial board. A passage based on this source was reverted in good faith by @Roger 8 Roger:, from the edit summaries, it seems he perhaps hasn’t had a chance to look properly at this source, or the wealth of others about the subject of FI English. Maybe we could discuss? Boynamedsue (talk) 16:08, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I didn’t look in depth. At first sight I thought it was an unpublished paper by some students. I may also have attributed to you sources that you did not add, such as what appeared to be a poem. So, apologies if I acted in haste, or even recklessly. My general observation about this article stands though: it does need a thorough tidy up, such as some of the casual English I removed. I do also have concerns about the very existence of FIE. It does look as if something is being created out of nothing, but if RSSs say otherwise then so be it. If too much attention is given to ‘che’ and a few other words, there might be a wp:weighting issue. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 19:11, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. I can see that the edit on “che” looked like a weight issue, but it was mostly because it was the first thing I’d worked on. Everything is likely to expand a bit, so it won’t look quite as out of place when the rest is sorted. If you don’t mind, I’ll do a few more sections then add it back a bit later then you can see what you think.
I can see your point re FIE, one of the things that sources say about it is how few unified and distinctive features can be identified (this will be in the article eventually too). It has been written about quite a bit by linguists though, because it’s like a micro-study of what happened when Australian and New Zealand English formed, and the differences in these processes and their results are something they are really interested in.Boynamedsue (talk) 19:40, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I will keep out from now on, so please go ahead. I think the microcosm point is interesting but with such a small population base and a lack of indigenous people I’m not sure it can be compared to NZ or Australia. There was no significant outside influence affecting the English spoken in the islands other than UK English. Compare, Australia=Aboriginal and large numbers and variety of immigrants; NZ=Australia and Maori; Rhodesia=South Africa etc. Even Pitcairn English with a smaller population base is different, due to its almost total isolation and possibly due to a slightly earlier original form of English. However, I am not an expert. IMO, a better approach to the use of certain words might be to look at pronunciation shifts that unified the English spoken on the islands from that spoken by the original immigrants who would presumably have spoken English variants such as Scottish/Yorkshire/Iris/SE England. This shift happened in NZ. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 21:09, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think all of those are valid points, and there is also the question of mobility. There has always been tremendous churn of people in FI, despite there being some very old families. The number of people who moved into Argentina, Uruguay or Chile, sometimes coming back and sometimes not, was really significant in the pre-1960s era. Then there is the constant travelling back and forward to the UK, and new immigrants from there, that has always occurred. In one of the sources it mentions that in 1953 (I think) about 10% of the population left and about 9% arrived. But it’s still true British people often hear Stanley folk as “Australian” and camp-dwellers as sort of “farmery”, so something is definitely going on. There’s some good work on phonetics that I’ll try and get into the article that touches on this.Boynamedsue (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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