Talk:Far-right politics in Ukraine: Difference between revisions

 

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* ”’Support”’ merge and cutting down on [[WP:OR]]/[[WP:SYNTH]] and redundant materials as described by nom. Even with all the sources and literature on neo-nazism were used, having that article merged here would still not make this article excessively long. About this article though, I’d recommend reorganizing somewhat to have more chronology or a history section, maybe using [[Far-right politics in the United Kingdom]] as a basis for expansion (I think WWII and Russo-Ukrainian war related movements/trends are based described in chronology first, as in the UK article, though other formats could work too). [[User:Dantheanimator|Dan]] [[User talk:Dantheanimator|the]] [[Special:Contributions/Dantheanimator|Animator]] 13:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

* ”’Support”’ merge and cutting down on [[WP:OR]]/[[WP:SYNTH]] and redundant materials as described by nom. Even with all the sources and literature on neo-nazism were used, having that article merged here would still not make this article excessively long. About this article though, I’d recommend reorganizing somewhat to have more chronology or a history section, maybe using [[Far-right politics in the United Kingdom]] as a basis for expansion (I think WWII and Russo-Ukrainian war related movements/trends are based described in chronology first, as in the UK article, though other formats could work too). [[User:Dantheanimator|Dan]] [[User talk:Dantheanimator|the]] [[Special:Contributions/Dantheanimator|Animator]] 13:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

*:That sounds good. I’m surprised [[Andrew Wilson (historian)|Andrew Wilson]]’s book isn’t used in this article, it provides a history of the Ukrainian far-right up to the 1990s and would help resolve any [[WP:UNDUE]] concerns. See [[Melnykites#Bibliography]]. I think the Ukrainian far-right can be traced back to the [https://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CU%5CK%5CUkrainianPartyofNationalWork.htm Ukrainian Party of National Work] in 1924 but I would need to double check to ensure it’s covered in this context. [[User:Joko2468|Joko2468]] ([[User talk:Joko2468|talk]]) 13:54, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

*:That sounds good. I’m surprised [[Andrew Wilson (historian)|Andrew Wilson]]’s book isn’t used in this article, it provides a history of the Ukrainian far-right up to the 1990s and would help resolve any [[WP:UNDUE]] concerns. See [[Melnykites#Bibliography]]. I think the Ukrainian far-right can be traced back to the [https://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CU%5CK%5CUkrainianPartyofNationalWork.htm Ukrainian Party of National Work] in 1924 but I would need to double check to ensure it’s covered in this context. [[User:Joko2468|Joko2468]] ([[User talk:Joko2468|talk]]) 13:54, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

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WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS The article Far-right politics in Ukraine, along with other pages relating to the Russo-Ukrainian War, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are: Only extended-confirmed editors may make edits related to the topic area, though editors who are not extended-confirmed may post constructive comments and make edit requests related to articles within the topic area on article talk pages. Should disruption occur on article talk pages, administrators may take enforcement actions against disruptive editors and/or apply page protection on article talk pages. However, non-extended-confirmed editors may not make edits to internal project discussions related to the topic area, even on article talk pages. Internal project discussions include, but are not limited to, Articles for deletion nominations, WikiProjects, requests for comment, requested moves, and noticeboard discussions. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned. Remedy instructions and exemptions Enforcement procedures: Violations of any restrictions and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators’ incidents noticeboard. Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense. An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned.

The role of Stepan Bandera in public opinion and politics in Ukraine should be covered in this article. I’m talking about covering his relevance with WP:DUE weight of course. Otherwise, this article would be incomplete or potentially disingenuous. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 13:25, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Slatersteven (talk) 13:31, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You probably know. Because he’s viewed by many as a national hero and there’s also commemoration of Stepan Bandera. These strong symbols and their influence in far-right politics/public are relevant. The analysis section of this page roughly demonstrates this. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 13:36, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I see you put your hands here too [1]… Alexis Coutinho (talk) 13:40, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is not about me, and as we do not even mention his “nation” the Ukrainian National Committee, why Bandera? Slatersteven (talk) 13:44, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean? Bandera is a much more famous and notable name than what I think you are talking about, the Ukrainian National Committee. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 13:53, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have had my say, but none of your arguments have convinced me he is particularly notable as a far-right figure in Ukraine. Slatersteven (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

“In today’s Ukraine, Bandera is viewed positively by between 50% and 74% of citizens, depending on the survey”[2] Yes, he is an important far-right figure in Ukraine. And if I remember correctly, there was also a section he spoke about which was removed. I agree with restoring it. Mhorg (talk) 14:47, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

👍 Alexis Coutinho (talk) 15:23, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That seems like a good reliable article to add new/fresh citations. Would you agree Slatersteven? I’m thinking like: if the content is new, then an RfC wouldn’t need to be created. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 15:33, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is one article, a year old (the poll two years old) So at best we could say “according to..in 2022”. Nor does it seem to say he is uniquely highly regarded, just that he is positively regarded I also note this is up as a result of the war, and that is reflective not of far-right politics but anti-Russian sentiment, now quite the same thing. I also see other names mentioned as well. So am unsure if this says Badera enjoys a special place in Ukraine’s far-right politics. Slatersteven (talk) 15:42, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The source is not related to this page. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 20:21, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We’ll see. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 02:06, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What? What does this mean? Slatersteven (talk) 11:49, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Investigate if it’s related or not, with my own eyes, when I put in the time though. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 15:22, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So do not ask me again, if you convince me I will tell you, rather than repeat what I am about to say “we need sources that say his far-right policies is what makes him extra special to Ukrainians” (or some such). Slatersteven (talk) 15:43, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You’re exhausting to interact with. It Takes two seconds to piece these together. Two more to provide a source.

Source showing Ukrainians support Bandera, a far right Nazi figure.

https://www.dw.com/en/stepan-bandera-ukrainian-hero-or-nazi-collaborator/a-61842720 2001:56A:DFF8:AAEC:0:2E:8F03:5E01 (talk) 09:45, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

a far right Nazi figure
— User:2001:56A:DFF8:AAEC:0:2E:8F03:5E01 09:45, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Not in source. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 09:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That’s a trivial argument. The Bandera page itself says in the first sentence that he’s a far right leader. If you really prefer, the reference from the other wiki article could also be cited here. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 14:38, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You’re exhausting to interact with. T
Takes two seconds to piece these togetber. Two more to provide a source.

Source showing Ukrainians support Bandera, a far right Nazi figure.

https://www.dw.com/en/stepan-bandera-ukrainian-hero-or-nazi-collaborator/a-61842720

urce. 2001:56A:DFF8:AAEC:0:2E:8F03:5E01 (talk) 09:43, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See above. Slatersteven (talk) 10:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Request that the following be added to the top of the page in light of the above merge proposal:

Joko2468 (talk) 14:30, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Since you are not an extended-confirmed editor you are not permitted to make any edits related to the contentious topic area of the Russo-Ukrainian War. This includes internal project discussions like the merge proposal you started above, so unfortunately your proposal is a non-starter. The exceptions to this are constructive talk page comments or edit requests that propose noncontroversial changes. Day Creature (talk) 16:17, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The article I’m discussing was created and written by a non extended-confirmed editor. Where can I bring this to the attention of such editors? Because it lies in the contentious topic and was created by an ilegible user, is this grounds for deletion? Joko2468 (talk) 16:46, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can see Neo-Nazism in Ukraine was created by User:Chastizement who is extended-confirmed. Day Creature (talk) 17:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My bad, I assumed based off there being no user page. Am I eligible to nominate that article for deletion? It’s not stamped as relating to the contentious topic. I think the issues I raised are serious. Joko2468 (talk) 17:34, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would say no, as I think the article definitely relates to the Russo-Ukrainian War. In fact, I am going to add a contentious topics banner on its talk page. Day Creature (talk) 17:37, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So there’s nothing I can do? That page is atrocious, misrepresents sources, and blatantly engages in original research. Is there nowhere at all where I can discuss this? I usually edit as an IP user because of the UI and have made over 500 edits outside of my main user account. Is there any way that I can get confirmed in light of this? Joko2468 (talk) 17:42, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You could make a request to be granted extended-confirmed early at WP:PERM, but it’s very unlikely to be granted. You can also just wait until you’ve made 30 or so more edits. I would encourage you to try editing in other topic areas that aren’t as controversial. As you are probably finding out, the experience of editing contentious topics is extremely difficult and frustrating. Day Creature (talk) 17:50, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay thank you. Joko2468 (talk) 18:51, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have since been extended-confirmed in the process of rewriting Mykola Stsiborskyi (still to write the Views section etc.). I am proposing that Neo-Nazism in Ukraine be merged into this article. It was created in May 2025 and written almost entirely by a single editor (Chastizement). Almost nothing new is contributed in that article except for the author’s original synthesis and unsupported statements. The narrative of Neo-Nazism in Ukraine neatly parallels that of the rest of the Ukrainian far-right and does not warrant its own article. Per WP:MERGEREASON, I argue that it meets Overlap since it is largely redundant and that it would also meet Short text since without the original synthesis it would only be one non-repeated paragraph long.

Beyond this, I have raised a number of serious and extensive issues with the article on its talk page pertaining to original research, verifiability, and neutrality. The history section is woefully inaccurate and unsupported by the cited sources. The quality of the article falls well short of the standards one would expect and the guidelines on contentious topics have been systematically ignored. Joko2468 (talk) 12:20, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Support merge and cutting down on WP:OR/WP:SYNTH and redundant materials as described by nom. Even with all the sources and literature on neo-nazism were used, having that article merged here would still not make this article excessively long. About this article though, I’d recommend reorganizing somewhat to have more chronology or a history section, maybe using Far-right politics in the United Kingdom as a basis for expansion (I think WWII and Russo-Ukrainian war related movements/trends are based described in chronology first, as in the UK article, though other formats could work too). Dan the Animator 13:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  That sounds good. I’m surprised Andrew Wilson‘s book isn’t used in this article, it provides a history of the Ukrainian far-right up to the 1990s and would help resolve any WP:UNDUE concerns. See Melnykites#Bibliography. I think the Ukrainian far-right can be traced back to the Ukrainian Party of National Work in 1924 but I would need to double check to ensure it’s covered in this context. There’s also Mykola Mikhnovsky who Wilson mentions in this context but that goes all the way back to the 19th century. Joko2468 (talk) 13:54, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]