Talk:Fascism and ideology: Difference between revisions

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This article is trying to show the historical ideological development of Italian fascism, Nazism, and other fascist ideologies in one section, including talk of the Nazis emulating Sparta as being the initial statement on the ancient historical influences on fascism. You could end up getting dozens of individual histories on various fascist parties and their local nation’s history’s influence on them. The history section of this article should initially focus on what led to the development of Italian fascism and its seizure of power in Italy and then talk about the fascist movements that emerged emulating Italian fascism such as the Nazis.

Topics on Nazi ideological influences that are not universal with fascism could be addressed in the Nazism article. BlueberryA96 (talk) 08:05, 5 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think it works as is. Nazism is often seen as one of the defining forms of fascism, with some scholars arguing it’s the only party that ever actually achieved fascism. That’s fascism in a generic sense and not Italian Fascism, with generic fascism being a more controversial and highly debated subject. It makes sense to highlight it in this way, I think, because it’s emphasized in reliable sources for this reason. 2601:486:100:9780:F862:61AA:C5A4:6CBE (talk) 06:54, 28 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

“it’s the only party that ever actually achieved fascism” – I’m sorry but that does not make sense unless you are meaning that Nazism hypothetically achieved the maximum extent of what fascism hypothetically set out to achieve. What can be said and is said by a number of historians on fascism is that Nazism emulated Italian fascism and built upon it with its own ideas. Italian fascism in the late 1930s adopted one of Nazism’s core ideas, antisemitism, that Italian fascism did not have up until that point. BlueberryA96 (talk) 03:52, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they’re referring to the fact that fascism is sometimes defined as totalitarian ultranationalism. Scholars like Hannah Arendt say that only the Nazis achieved totalitarianism, and even then that they only achieved it late into their rule. If fascism is inherently totalitarian, then the Nazis are arguably the only ones to ever achieve a true fascist state.

Obviously, the degree to which totalitarianism is a coherent concept, what it means, and whether it’s actually an important defining factor of fascism are all up for debate. This is only one of many potential scholarly stances. 2601:486:100:9780:1506:9313:5219:A4A2 (talk) 18:08, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]