I have started a new discussion on whether Aeroroutes is a reliable source, if you wanna join the discussion to mention on if its a reliable source feel free to do so, the discussion is at [[WP:RSN#WP:AEROROUTES]], if you want to bring the source back as reliable id recommend you to join [[User:Metrosfan|Metrosfan]] ([[User talk:Metrosfan|talk]]) 06:57, 27 October 2025 (UTC)
I have started a new discussion on whether Aeroroutes is a reliable source, if you wanna join the discussion to mention on if its a reliable source feel free to do so, the discussion is at [[WP:RSN#WP:AEROROUTES]], if you want to bring the source back as reliable id recommend you to join [[User:Metrosfan|Metrosfan]] ([[User talk:Metrosfan|talk]]) 06:57, 27 October 2025 (UTC)
== flightsfrom.com as a source ==
Considering that attempts to make Aeroroutes reliable again have failed and now theres gonna be a lot of links to be removed i can recommend you a source here, for routes that AeroRoutes cites are being removed you can use flightsfrom.com to replace them, it shows which airlines flies on routes and it can be used to prove these routes exist and also this isnt a booking website, although for newer routes or routes with stopovers it might be harder since the website only updates routes a month and it only shows nonstop routes [[User:Metrosfan|Metrosfan]] ([[User talk:Metrosfan|talk]]) 08:26, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
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Hello Lowyat Slyder,
since you have indicated via Babel that you know malay and english, I have a somewhat unusual question that I would like to ask you for help with:
I’m looking for the equivalent of Template:Db-u1 on https://ms.wikipedia.org, but can’t find it. Unfortunately, there are no interlanguage links. Which could mean that it doesn’t exist at all or that the request to delete your own user page is handled differently there – on Wikimedia Commons, for example, I would have to use {{SD|U1}}. Unfortunately, this and my lack of language skills make it very difficult for me to have my user page deleted, so I would be happy to hear from you. Maybe you have some free time and would like to help me?
Many thanks and best regards —80.187.85.59 (talk) 15:13, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
- https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templat:Db-g1
- Templat: Db-g1
- On the sides of our wiki, there is the language equivalent of certain pages, and Template:Db-u1 is equal to templat: Db-g1 on MS wiki. Lowyat Slyder (talk) 18:14, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
Hi Lowyat Slyder. For your information, Dutch Masters 1983, 1984 and Scottish Open tht held in November 1984 were not part of IBF Grand Prix. There were 2 Scottish Open in 1984, and the tournament tht held in January was part of Grand Prix event (Read: Scottish Open 1984 (Jan) and Scottish Open 1984 (Nov). So, I hope you can fix some of your edits, so that Wikipedia will not provide wrong information. Thanks Stvbastian (talk) 22:02, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
- Hello. Thank you for that information. But, there is reasons why I put the inconsistencies.
- 1) Dutch masters was not in the EN wiki for some players before I added (it was from the DE Wiki and the sources are there too). But, older edit like before I do like in Indonesia players Icuk Sugiarto which mark as GP and the all combined but not mark as GP for Ivana Lie and Rosiana Tendean already here before I was start editing. Some already put on IBF international like Kirsten Larsen. I just try my best NOT TO TOUCH unbroken information. And considering the sources says high level tournaments with high calibers players do play and win in it, it is not that critical to put them separately as the borderline of GP and non GP are not really clear at that point.
- 2) Scottish Open is iffy. Some cases as most edit put it either on GP or non GP and specifically for 1984 (Nov), the results are not recorded in the source we have, so same reasoning as the first one (not too critical to categorise them).
- 3) I give you one of the DE wiki page that has book sources (which is not downloadable about the first World Grand Prix season). This is THE ONLY GP present:
- – Swedish Open, All England, World Championships, Malaysia Open, Indonesia Open, Scandinavian Cup, Canada Open and World Grand Prix Finals
- This is so absurd. No Japan Open, No German Open, No Denmark Open, No Taiwan Open. I’m not saying the sources are wrong but so many high level tournaments are not marketed as GP. And this is in the year of 1983. The inaugural year for GP. So, for me it is better we retroactively using current standard tournament as fallen back measured for these kind of tournaments since if we are too strict on this, LOTS of other older edits that I do not responsible with HAVE to be re-edit.
- I know we have to follow sources as closest as we can do. But one thing I try to keep on is preserving some older edits that does not affect the information we already have. There was quite one big error that gone so long in 1990 World Badminton Grand Prix Finals that CERTAINLY affects the truthfulness of the actual information – Wrong winner on the WD DESPITE the sources clearly states that the Chinese WD won that, not the Indonesians (and this gone unnoticed for so long). IMO, we should focus on that first before start nitpicking on tournament categories on pre 90’s one since we never got the full season sources from the IBF at that time (even in here the only IBF covered season is in its final one, 2006).
- Plus, if you’re thinking I do not care about the tourney classification is just wrong. If you look my edit on Tang Yongshu, every single one I check and put in the right one since it is the 90’s where the information are far more clear. Same as I completing the pages of Lars Paaske and Jonas Rasmussen which is a WC in 2003 (which is weird why it is not completed). If the information is recent, easily achievable and referable, then I follow it without any excuses.
- This reply is not to cause havoc or whatsoever but to clarify why I made some choices on that pages. Apologies for some rough words.
- P.S : Why not we try to uncover the mystery of Denmark Open 1983 where basically no sources whatsoever recorded for the opponents and the scores? Lowyat Slyder (talk) 23:14, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
-
- Hi Lowyat Slyder.. Thanks for the response. I will try to answer your statements or confusions in order:
- There were some sources in World Badminton Magazine about which tournament that included in GP (Read: https://worldbadminton.com/museum/publications/WorldBadminton/).
- In Badminton Museet page 20 said in 1983 only 7 tournaments that included in GP event, and in 1984 there were 14 tournaments.
- For Icuk Sugiarto article, it was vandalized by User:Abu889 who made a lot of messy edits in badminton related articles. (Here the article before and after edited by User:Abu889) So, the English Masters and Dutch Masters/Holland Master 1983 were not a GP.
- World Badminton March 1984 page 17 and 27 clearly said tht Scottish Open that held in January is a GP event. So, the other Scottish Open in 1984 not a GP
- I did not know why only 7 GP tournaments plus the GP finals in 1983. But, Badminton Museet 1984_05 clearly said about that 7 tournaments.
- Fyi, the categorization of tournaments that included in the Grand Prix on DE wiki have been verified by me and User:Florentyna both through online (free (mostly from https://worldbadminton.com/museum/publications/WorldBadminton/, subscription, and archive) and also offline sources. So, it is clear which tournaments are and are not included in the Grand Prix.
- For 1990 GP Finals, yes it was a mistake. It is good you’ve find the mistake. Until now, i also try to find sources about the past badminton tournaments, and i also found some mistakes in Wikipedia so i can fix it.
- I did not thinking tht you not care. Because, i also see your big effort to develop badminton articles in Wikipedia. When i see your editing in Karen Bridge article, i think you did not know about the GP and non GP tournaments at all. So, im just trying to give you some information about that.
- For Denmark Open, i already search in Badminton Museet, World Badminton, and Badminton England Magazine, but i did not found any clue. It crossed my mind whether the 1983 Denmark Open actually never existed. And the source in the Badminton Europe handbook was the result of the World Championships which was also held in Denmark at that time. Until now I am still confused. i hope we can find the source right away.
- Sorry for my bad English, I hope you can understand what I mean. Thanks Stvbastian (talk)
- Hi Lowyat Slyder.. Thanks for the response. I will try to answer your statements or confusions in order:
Hello. You’re invited to participate in The World Destubathon. We’re aiming to destub a lot of articles and also improve longer stale articles. It started today on Monday June 16 and will run until Sunday July 13. There is over $3300 going into it, with $500 the top prize. If you are interested in winning something to save you money in buying books for future content, or just see it as a good editathon opportunity to see a lot of articles improved for subjects which interest you, sign up on the page in the participants section if interested. Even if you can only manage a few articles they would be very much appreciated and help make the content produced as diverse and broad as possible!♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:54, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
- Welcome aboard Lowyat, it is fun!, feel free to invite anybody else you know at WP Malaysia! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:25, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
Hi, just a courtesy message to notify you in case you haven’t seen the Wikipedia:The World Destubathon contest update in the last few days that we’ve decided to run the full month until the 16th of July. For those who have been too busy to contribute, we would love some help in reaching 4000 articles by Wednesday night! At present we’re about 480 articles short!♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:48, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- I see the edit you made. Lets me say this because i freaking hate this particular bs in aviations community:
- 1) The sources is there. But for some reason, every single one of plane updates sources are denounced as SPS because “no credibility” or “original resources” which is a g****mn bs IMO (This is my talkpage, I don’t care of swearing here).
- 2) By that logic, EVERY SINGLE FLEET COUNT IN WIKI SHOULD BE SAID UNRELIABLE. Because literally there is 0 reliable sites to keep the fleet updates. Heck even FR24 is being disputed MANY TIMES here.
- 3) And the “official press conferences” by the said airlines is also considered unreliable which AYFKM? PRESS CONFERENCE MEANT FOR PUBLIC INFO GDI! Just look at the press video I link on YT by the chairman of AI tragedy last month and deleted without consent (Do they even checked it why it is there at the first place). Thank god I manage to put it back.
- Thus being said, look at people who responded to you in edit history and considered what they said. So be it with your revert. Keep it that way if it make you happy Lowyat Slyder (talk) 16:46, 22 July 2025 (UTC)
- I’m literally in the middle of removing unreliable sources from all the fleet tables. The state of them is abysmal, I do agree. But if we can’t find reliable sources, then they should be removed – it’s as simple as that. However, I’m not sure what you mean by official press release being unreliable? Please do say if I made a mistake, but from what I can gather what I reverted was a change of a number without any sort of source to back it up… As for your YT video… I have zero intention of looking at youtube. Danners430 tweaks made 17:17, 22 July 2025 (UTC)
- Two thing – one, this is the second time I’ve warned you about your edit summaries. Stop shouting in edit summaries – this is not a request. Secondly, sources are mandatory, not optional. If you don’t want content removed, then sources get added when you add content. Otherwise it gets removed. This isn’t up for discussion, this is how Wikipedia’s verifiability policy works. Danners430 tweaks made 10:00, 9 October 2025 (UTC)
- Dude… USE YOUR BRAIN. Investigate and read more on airlines routes. FR was there, Aeroroutes was there. You’re deleting because of your elitism of “knowing it all” and thought… oh, no sources so no legit.. dude. you’re deleting Bangkok Kuala Lumpur from MAS last time which is a route THAT NEVER CANCELLED and you’re deleting Qantas route from Sydney (their main airport) to Bangkok with no reason just because of… oh no sources… what a ridiculous behaviour.
- I quoting THIS SUMMER route for Sydney and Bangkok as easy as that and you’re not finding one? DO YOUR RESEARCH. There are reasons why I mad here. You’re not thinking wisely and just entering these kind of aviations page with lack of knowledge of how to do it! Of course, there are trunk routes that being cancelled or stop but those only come with OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT or sources that says the flight ENDS. Without those, DON’T DELETE THE DESTINATIONS AS YOU PLEASE. Now you’re deleting Cork to Heathrow recently even though I instantly found sources that say they still flew that route 4 times daily!
- Understand why I shout. Understand why WibWob try to get book sources lots of times to prevent guys like you from dilly dallying deleting without reason! Lowyat Slyder (talk) 10:14, 9 October 2025 (UTC)
- Have a read of WP:SHOUT – we don’t do it on Wikipedia, it’s that simple. Stop. As for sourcing – there’s no elitism, it’s a simple case of if you don’t add sources when you add content, it gets removed. This isn’t something I’ve dreamt up – it’s standard practice and normal procedure. You add a source when you make a claim – that is the end of the discussion.
- Finally, stop with your personal attacks. Again – this is not a request, consider this a formal warning. Statements like
Use your brain
orwhat a ridiculous behaviour
will see you blocked (not by myself – I’m not an administrator, I’m merely warning you of the policies on this site) for violating WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. Danners430 tweaks made 10:18, 9 October 2025 (UTC)- I can be civil. Look how I write my edit summary mostly in my contributions, go ahead.
- But what you’re doing is borderline ridiculous because you’re in it with no actual knowledge how airline routes works. I’m not an old guy, I’m pretty new but even I can see where legacy edit being made and why that route is there.
- Problem is, you think you are right just by giving… no sources, so no true…. by not asking why it was there in the first place. Of course, there are LOTS of things that I do see a delete is justified when no sources added like weird airlines, no announcements, fishy sources or non-independent sources (primary sources).. but you’re deleting common route that everyone knows without looking at wiki that it is a route that not being cancelled.
- Here’s the example. In KLIA page, There is no sources for Kuala Lumpur to London Heathrow in the passenger table, would you delete it? of course ridiculous edit if you do that!
- 1) There is sources in Heathrow airport for MH to Kuala Lumpur
- 2) This route was NEVER CANCELLED at all. Suspended? maybe. But not cancelled. It’s like you cancel route London – New York, Singapore – Kuala Lumpur, Taipei – Tokyo. 99% it will never happened. This is why I say, Yes, sources is important. But please do researches to get more knowledge on this topic before deleting just because no sources found.
- Read WibWob sources summary update and you understand better on my point. Just he do it more cautiously. Lowyat Slyder (talk) 10:32, 9 October 2025 (UTC)
- I suspect that WP:Verifiability not truth is what you’re looking for. Removing unsourced content is not about disputing the accuracy of the information, but about disputing its verifiability. I don’t disagree that the content is correct – but this is an encyclopaedia, and content must (not optional) be verified by a reliable source. If it isn’t, then it doesn’t belong on Wikipedia, regardless of how accurate it is.
- As for your civility – I know you’re capable of it. But it’s not optional, and you (and I and everyone) are required to be civil in ALL interactions on Wikipedia, and to everyone. If you disagree with someone, you are expected to disagree in a civil manner. As I said – it’s not optional, it’s mandatory policy. Danners430 tweaks made 10:39, 9 October 2025 (UTC)
Hi, just a quick heads up – Aeroroutes has been at WP:RSN, and it was agreed that it wasn’t a reliable source – the discussion is at WP:AEROROUTES. Danners430 tweaks made 16:01, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Gosh.. this part of aviation community is started to annoy the heck out of it:
- 1) Primary sources cannot be use – Has bias in it. Fine
- 2) Secondary sources maybe UGS or SPS. Cannot use it. Fine.
- At this point I do not believe we will find one spots or one websites that keep tabbing on the routes evolution without being considered as SPS? even though Aeroroutes has long said where they took the sources from (mostly OAG and GDS which are airline data aggregator…Problem is… THEY ARE PAID SERVICES!)… Gosh, thought Wiki was created as free sources of educations.
- How about we deleted all the routes in ALL AIRPORTS in this wiki? Can we do that? freaking annoying at this point.
- If you guys who are so elite in knowing which one is most RELIABLE ALL IN ONE sources sites, go ahead and do the work. Don’t just do the “holier than thou” edit. Lowyat Slyder (talk) 16:14, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Mate, WP:RSN is a public noticeboard that anyone can edit and anyone can join discussions. This wasn’t something done by “the aviation community” – heck, I’m not even part of that WikiProject, I just have a number of airport articles on my watchlist.
- And by the way… yes, deleting route tables is an option that is currently being publicly discussed at WP:VPP, specifically because of how difficult it is to source them with reliable sources. Anyone, including yourself, is welcome to join any of these discussions – that’s why these talk pages exist. If we didn’t want you to join in, we wouldn’t be leaving you messages on your talk page. Danners430 tweaks made 16:18, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
I have started a new discussion on whether Aeroroutes is a reliable source, if you wanna join the discussion to mention on if its a reliable source feel free to do so, the discussion is at WP:RSN#WP:AEROROUTES, if you want to bring the source back as reliable id recommend you to join Metrosfan (talk) 06:57, 27 October 2025 (UTC)
Considering that attempts to make Aeroroutes reliable again have failed and now theres gonna be a lot of links to be removed i can recommend you a source here, for routes that AeroRoutes cites are being removed you can use flightsfrom.com to replace them, it shows which airlines flies on routes and it can be used to prove these routes exist and also this isnt a booking website, although for newer routes or routes with stopovers it might be harder since the website only updates routes a month and it only shows nonstop routes Metrosfan (talk) 08:26, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
