User talk:Robert T. deGavre: Difference between revisions

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::This is my first article on Wikipedia. It will go through more re-drafts. Please let me know what I am doing incorrectly.

::Your help would be appreciated. [[User:Robert T. deGavre|Robert T. deGavre]] ([[User talk:Robert T. deGavre#top|talk]]) 01:20, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

== Your submission at [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for creation]]: [[Draft:Chester Braddock deGavre|Chester Braddock deGavre]] (November 9) ==

<div style=”border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: var(–background-color-warning-subtle, #fdf2d5); color: inherit; padding: 0.5em 1em; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;”> [[File:AFC-Logo_Decline.svg|50px|left]]Your recent article submission to [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for Creation]] has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time.<nowiki> </nowiki>The reasons left by MWFwiki were:

{{divbox|gray|3=This submission reads more like an [[WP:What Wikipedia is not#WP:NOTESSAY|essay]] than an encyclopedia article. Submissions should summarise information in [[Wikipedia:No original research#Primary, secondary and tertiary sources |secondary, reliable sources]] and not contain opinions or [[WP:OR|original research]]. Please write about the topic from a [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view]] in an [[Wikipedia:Writing better articles#Information style and tone|encyclopedic manner]].|}}<!–

–>{{divbox|gray|3=This submission does not appear to be written in [[Wikipedia:Writing better articles#Information style and tone|the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article]]. Entries should be written from a [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|neutral point of view]], and should refer to a range of [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|independent, reliable, published sources]]. Please rewrite your submission in a more encyclopedic format. Please make sure to avoid [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch#Puffery|peacock terms]] that promote the subject.|}}<!–

—

–> The comment the reviewer left was:

{{divbox|blue|3=I believe the subject meets notability guidelines. Sourcing looks good. However, we need some serious work on the prose. We need encyclopedic prose [[WP:NOTESSAY|not an essay]]. It is very well-written, but the [[WP:NPOV]]-issues are too much and need to be addressed. Just for example, things like {{tq|”deGavre’s last years were difficult for him[…]”}}, {{tq|”deGavre joined the airborne community at a pivotal moment in its history[…]”}}, {{tq|” In these capacities, Major and then Lieutenant Colonel deGavre, without the aid of any established precedent and at great physical risk[…]”}}, and {{tq|”He was not an intellectual or an academic, as evidenced by his low academic standing at West Point and his distaste for staff and Pentagon assignments[,]”}} are simply not compatible with the ideal encyclopedic prose. We don’t need commentary, simply statements of fact. It’s okay to ”quote” commentary made by others, though (which you do well, several times throughout the article). These were simply select examples, not an exhaustive list by any means.

This: {{tq|”[Note: This article devotes disproportionate space to the few months deGavre served in Korea. His assignment as CO of the 65th Infantry Regiment has in recent years become controversial. He also exhibited unusual abilities in commanding infantry troops in battle which attracted the attention of his superiors. The assignment arguably allowed him to break the glass ceiling that his low standing at West Point may have imposed upon his career,”}} needs to be axed altogether. With very few exceptions, we don’t permit “wall-breaking” meta-commentary.

Lastly and least-importantly, the article lacks [[wp:wikilinks|wikilinks]]. Cities, schools, other people (that have articles), etc, should all be wikilinked.

All of this being said; As a former jumper myself, I want you to know that I take this subject as seriously as you undoubtedly do. I’m assuming that you’re a relative, given your username, and I understand why you write so emotionally and verbosely. However, we need neutrality, as I said. I look forward to seeing the corrections and perhaps more of your work elsewhere on Wikipedia. As soon as you can resolve these defficicinens I believe the article is prepared for Mainspace.

”'[[User:MWFwiki|MWFwiki]]”’ ([[User talk:MWFwiki|talk]]) 03:11, 9 November 2025 (UTC)}} Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit ”after they have been resolved”.

* If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to [[Draft:Chester Braddock deGavre]] and click on the “Edit” tab at the top of the window.

* If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G13. Abandoned drafts and Articles for creation submissions|may be deleted]].

* If you need any assistance, or have experienced any [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Scam warning|untoward behavior]] associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk/New_question&withJS=MediaWiki:AFCHD-wizard.js&page=Draft:Chester_Braddock_deGavre ”’Articles for creation help desk”’], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MWFwiki&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Chester_Braddock_deGavre ”’reviewer’s talk page”’] or use [[Wikipedia:IRC help disclaimer|Wikipedia’s real-time chat help from experienced editors]].

”'[[User:MWFwiki|MWFwiki]]”’ ([[User talk:MWFwiki|talk]]) 03:11, 9 November 2025 (UTC)</div><!–Template:AfC decline–>

Please help me with…

Robert T. deGavre (talk) 21:54, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Robert T. deGavre. You need to click the Publish button on the draft page, which is the same as “Save” on most word processors. This doesn’t publish the draft for review, but does commit your changes.

However, looking at your Special:Contributions/Robert T. deGavre (which is a list of all your edits), I don’t see any drafts. Could you have been logged out while you were drafting it? Could you check your web browser history? Qcne (talk) 22:18, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Sir Robert? May I ask for your help how to start creating article page? Thanks. Ayaandiya (talk) 06:17, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What are the basic steps and tips that I need to focus on? Ayaandiya (talk) 06:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

how do I save a draft article so I can work on it at a later date?. And then how to I recover/find that draft to work on it? Robert T. deGavre (talk) 20:17, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

how do I save a draft article so I can work on it at a later date? And then how do I find/recover that article for further work? Robert T. deGavre (talk) 20:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Creating an article from scratch is the MOST difficult task on Wikipedia, I would suggest you spend a few months making smaller edits and gradually build up your skills before undertaking article creation. If you are still determined then I suggest you start here Wikipedia:Articles for creation. Theroadislong (talk) 21:12, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Robert T. deGavre!

Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Getting Started

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Learn everything you need to know to get started.

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Ask questions and get help from experienced editors.

The Task Center
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Tips

Don’t be afraid to edit! Just find something that can be improved and make it better. Other editors will help fix any mistakes you make.
It’s normal to feel a little overwhelmed, but don’t worry if you don’t understand everything at first—it’s fine to edit using common sense.
If an edit you make is reverted, you can discuss the issue at the article’s talk page. Be civil, and don’t restore the edit unless there is consensus.
Always use edit summaries to explain your changes.
When adding new content to an article, always include a citation to a reliable source.
If you wish to edit about a subject with which you are affiliated, read our conflict of interest guide and disclose your connection.
Have fun! Your presence in the Wikipedia community is welcome.

Hi @Robert T. deGavre, just following up from your message in the Help Desk two days ago. It’s been archived now so you won’t see it on the main page.

Glad to see you’ve managed to publish a draft at Draft:Brigadier General Chester Braddock deGavre. I would recommend turning on the WP:VISUALEDITOR and then following the instructions at WP:INTREFVE which will allow you to automatically create footnotes and in-line citations in the proper format.

If you want any help, let me know. Qcne (talk) 18:26, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you again for your help and offers of assistance. Three questions:

1. where do I find WP:VISUALEDITOR? It is not on the page where I am typing the text. I assume WP:INTREFVE will be on WP:VISUALEDITOR.

2. When typing foreign words, I need to insert accents, umlauts, etc. On the insert tab, I cannot find those types of symbols.

3. How do I increase size of type for headings?

Rob Robert T. deGavre (talk) 22:10, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Robert T. deGavre.

You may have to turn on the visual editor, instructions of which are at WP:VISUALEDITOR. It’s an editor that looks a bit like Microsoft Word, so you don’t have to use the Wikipedia markup language to format pages, and is a lot easier to use.

For non-Latin characters, you can use the Special Character button which looks like a Greek omega symbol. Clicking on it will open a large array of special characters you can choose from.

For headings, in the visual editor you’ll see a button for text styles which includes headings, sub headings, etc. Instructions at Help:Introduction to editing with VisualEditor/2.

Hope that gets you going, but let me know if you have more questions. Qcne (talk) 11:41, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again.

I cannot open my draft for further editing. When I go to the page, there is a notice concerning re-directing.

What has happened? I got one comment that I cannot use personal papers for references. Is it possible that that person shut down my draft?

Rob Robert T. deGavre (talk) 21:22, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I moved your draft to Draft:Chester Braddock deGavre the correct title and yes it’s correct that you cannot use personal papers or letters for references. Theroadislong (talk) 21:51, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The road is long, and regrettably it is only getting longer. It belies the Chinese proverb that a journey of 1000 miles begins with one step. The end is slowly disappearing into the distance as I write paragraphs.

Much gratitude for recovering the draft. thanks.

My stepfather’s files contain letters that are important to tell his story. Some are not essential. Others are. Those provide credibility to the article. For example, General Maxwell Taylor, Commander of 8th Army in Korea (later Chief of Staff and Ambassador to Vietnam), recommended my stepfather for general officer. That recommendation is important in accepting the Army’s approval/gratitude for his reconfiguring the 65th Regiment into a fighting force the theater commander could rely upon and that friendly units on the regiment’s flanks could rely upon to protect their flanks. If I omit reference to General Taylor’s letter, I omit a major piece of the story. Also I find Col. Dalbey’s letters describing my stepfather’s work in developing parachute equipment inspiring. Any suggestions?

P.S. I had never seen most of these papers until I cleared out his desk. I wish I had read them many years ago while he was still alive.

Rob Robert T. deGavre (talk) 22:41, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I do not doubt that the letters are of great interest to you personally, but they simply cannot be used on Wikipedia to support content, you need to base your article on what reliable, independent, published sources say. Theroadislong (talk) 07:30, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please could you use accurate edit summaries “Draft creation using the WP:Article wizard” is fine for your very first edit but does NOT describe all following edits! Theroadislong (talk) 22:11, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you.

I had to re-work my draft to eliminate information from the official documents in deGavre’s personal papers. I understand that personal papers, even if official government correspondence, cannot be used in a Wikipedia article, which requirement is unfortunate since it then eliminates pertinent and interesting data from the article. I wanted to keep the eliminated portion temporarily for my own benefit. I will copy it and then eliminate it.

Again, thank you Robert T. deGavre (talk) 23:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You are still not using correct edit summaries. Theroadislong (talk) 07:53, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is my first article on Wikipedia. It will go through more re-drafts. Please let me know what I am doing incorrectly.

Your help would be appreciated. Robert T. deGavre (talk) 01:20, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by MWFwiki were: The comment the reviewer left was:

I believe the subject meets notability guidelines. Sourcing looks good. However, we need some serious work on the prose. We need encyclopedic prose not an essay. It is very well-written, but the WP:NPOV-issues are too much and need to be addressed. Just for example, things like “deGavre’s last years were difficult for him[…]”, “deGavre joined the airborne community at a pivotal moment in its history[…]”, ” In these capacities, Major and then Lieutenant Colonel deGavre, without the aid of any established precedent and at great physical risk[…]”, and “He was not an intellectual or an academic, as evidenced by his low academic standing at West Point and his distaste for staff and Pentagon assignments[,]” are simply not compatible with the ideal encyclopedic prose. We don’t need commentary, simply statements of fact. It’s okay to quote commentary made by others, though (which you do well, several times throughout the article). These were simply select examples, not an exhaustive list by any means.

This: “[Note: This article devotes disproportionate space to the few months deGavre served in Korea. His assignment as CO of the 65th Infantry Regiment has in recent years become controversial. He also exhibited unusual abilities in commanding infantry troops in battle which attracted the attention of his superiors. The assignment arguably allowed him to break the glass ceiling that his low standing at West Point may have imposed upon his career,” needs to be axed altogether. With very few exceptions, we don’t permit “wall-breaking” meta-commentary.

Lastly and least-importantly, the article lacks wikilinks. Cities, schools, other people (that have articles), etc, should all be wikilinked.

MWFwiki (talk) 03:11, 9 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

MWFwiki (talk) 03:11, 9 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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