Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bhante Vimalaramsi (2nd nomination): Difference between revisions

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::The [https://pluralism.org/news/american-monk-named-first-us-representative-world-buddhist-supreme-conference Pluralism Project source] is a [https://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=65,3567,0,0,1,0 press release from BuddhistChannel.tv], placed by Vimalaramsi’s [https://www.dhammasukha.org/ Dhammasukha.org]. The [https://www.dailymirror.lk/news-features/Dhamma-Teaching-for-Daily-Life/131-140058 Daily Mirror LK source] is another press release, for one of Vimalaramsi’s talks. The language there is entirely promotional, not journalism. It’s also published by the [[Daily Mirror (Sri Lanka)]], not the [[Daily Mirror]]. Not that it really matters, as it’s a press release.

::If you can supply [[WP:THREE]] reliable, secondary, independent sources, I’d be happy to review them. Keep in mind that [[WP:N|our notability policy]] requires that subjects receive significant coverage in those reliable sources. [[User:Woodroar|Woodroar]] ([[User talk:Woodroar|talk]]) 15:09, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:::It is a ”’press release”’. Even if the article from Daily Mirror LK is to be recovered and its link made available, the article cannot be considered journalism.

:::Journalism is an objective, third-party reporting process that collects, verifies, and presents information to the public, while a press release is a subjective, promotional document created by an organization to ~~announce~~ ~~something~~ ~~newsworthy~~ [[User:Deathnotekll2|Deathnotekll2]] ([[User talk:Deathnotekll2|talk]]) 20:41, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:::Journalism is an objective, third-party reporting process that collects, verifies, and presents information to the public, while a press release is a subjective, promotional document created by an organization to [[User:Deathnotekll2|Deathnotekll2]] ([[User talk:Deathnotekll2|talk]]) 20:41, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

::This article represents the Representative of the United States to the World Buddhist Conference in Japan. https://www.dhammasukha.org/world-buddist Bhante Vimalaramsi is a famous noted teacher of Sutta based Buddhism. His channel has 885 videos – his method of TWIM has worldwide presence https://www.dhammasukha.org/dhamma-sukha-world-wide

::The Path to Nibbana has attained a huge following and the teachings there have been verified by Meditators who practice it. Notably Matthew Immergut a coauthor of Mind Illumninated is an avid follower of TWIM. There are many research papers available about Bhante Vimalaramsi’s students https://www.dhammasukha.org/twimarticlesandresearch

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I propose Bhante Vimalaramsi’s article should be either deleted or merged into another topic. The reasons are fundamentally unaltered from the 2012 ballot, which decided to remove the page on grounds of lack of notability and independent sources.

Many sources could not be properly verified at the time of this writing, while some either do not qualify as independent, are not trustworthy secondary sources or cannot have their editorial integrity checked.

1. Sources that do, but only partially, are the Pluralism Project from Harvard University. It’s cited at first as depicting the subject (“Vimalaramsi”) on a biographical tone. However, upon closer examination his name could not be found in the referenced article. The second link to the pluralism project was found broken and inaccessible, compromising the article’s integrity.

2. Other sources are significantly biased. Kraft – for example – is a self-published author that does not meet the criteria for notoriety as a secondary source. Kraft was a student of Bhante, and while that alone may not be able to confirm the presence of bias, Wikipedia excludes works produced by the article’s subject or someone affiliated with it. David Johnson has published a book through an unknown publisher whose editorial integrity cannot be verified, as well as Vimalaramsi; the article is littered with his (Vimalaramsi’s) own self-published work that violates the General Notability Guideline for sources that are “Independent of the Subject”.

3. There are violations of Wikipedia’s Neutral Point of View Policy, as well as unsupported claims of literary fame. I will present one of such examples below.

“In 1995 Bhante began to study the Sutta texts more thoroughly and he practiced meditation according to the Suttas.” (Said who?). After a three-month self-retreat in a cave in Thailand, he wrote a book on the Mindfulness of Breathing called “The Ānāpānasati Sutta: A Practical Guide to Mindfulness of Breathing and Tranquil Wisdom Meditation”. Today it is estimated that more than a million copies of this book are circulated worldwide in 12 languages.”

Very well; however, the link to Daily Mirror LK is inaccessible. This source would be the only one supporting a significant claim to fame that cannot be found anywhere else. Bear in mind Daily Mirror LK is NOT the same paper as the British tabloid Daily Mirror.

4. Some sources may be misleading, effectively resorting to trickery.

Some sources may quote inaccessible or nonexistent phrases. Marvel Logan/Vimalaramsi could not be located in the Institute of Buddhist Studies, nor in Harvard’s Pluralism Project or Daily Mirror LK. I have marked the phrase below as possibly resorting to such trickery:

“I really got it! Whenever you try to focus your attention only on breathing and exclude other things—sound, delusive ideas etc., you will get stuffiness and tension in your body and mind, even if you are not aware of it.”; this quotation could not be located in the Institute of Buddhist Studies. The subject (Vimalaramsi) could not be found as well. And even if he has been mentioned, that fact alone does not guarantee notoriety.

The article is too compromised to be kept separate. The few trustworthy sources that could be found are inaccessible or don’t mention this person at all upon closer examination. I propose that, in the event that the article isn’t deleted for its multiple violations of Wikipedia’s editorial guidelines, that it is instead merged into another topic, if available. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deathnotekll2 (talk • contribs) 21:38, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited the discussion to add new arguments and expose additional violations. Deathnotekll2 (talk) 23:09, 18 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Fails WP:GNG. All cited sources are connected to Vimalaramsi in some way. Looked for reliable, secondary, independent sources but could not find any. Could only find more primary and connected sources, social media, forum/Reddit posts, etc. The previous AfD resulted in delete and it appears that no new reputable sources have been published since then. Woodroar (talk) 23:43, 18 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The reference to Pluralism Project from Harvard University is there. What you said is not accurate. Also the Link for Daily Mirror LK is there.https://www.dailymirror.lk/news-features/Dhamma-Teaching-for-Daily-Life/131-140058https://pluralism.org/news/american-monk-named-first-us-representative-world-buddhist-supreme-conferenceI would say you are being too critical. This does not deserve to be deleted. If any links are broken it can be googled and correct link could be added. Dhammagavesi1 (talk) 11:54, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Pluralism Project source is a press release from BuddhistChannel.tv, placed by Vimalaramsi’s Dhammasukha.org. The Daily Mirror LK source is another press release, for one of Vimalaramsi’s talks. The language there is entirely promotional, not journalism. It’s also published by the Daily Mirror (Sri Lanka), not the Daily Mirror. Not that it really matters, as it’s a press release.

If you can supply WP:THREE reliable, secondary, independent sources, I’d be happy to review them. Keep in mind that our notability policy requires that subjects receive significant coverage in those reliable sources. Woodroar (talk) 15:09, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is a press release, precisely. Even if the article from Daily Mirror LK is to be recovered and its link made available, the article cannot be considered journalism.

Journalism is an objective, third-party reporting process that collects, verifies, and presents information to the public, while a press release is a subjective, promotional document created by an organization to generate favorable media coverage and create public awareness for a company, event, or product. Deathnotekll2 (talk) 20:41, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This article represents the Representative of the United States to the World Buddhist Conference in Japan. https://www.dhammasukha.org/world-buddist Bhante Vimalaramsi is a famous noted teacher of Sutta based Buddhism. His channel has 885 videos – his method of TWIM has worldwide presence https://www.dhammasukha.org/dhamma-sukha-world-wide

The Path to Nibbana has attained a huge following and the teachings there have been verified by Meditators who practice it. Notably Matthew Immergut a coauthor of Mind Illumninated is an avid follower of TWIM. There are many research papers available about Bhante Vimalaramsi’s students https://www.dhammasukha.org/twimarticlesandresearch

On the other hand there are people who don’t like TWIM who are trying their best to discredit him but even the Buddha had his haters. Please do not take this down. David Johnson https://www.dhammasukha.org/david-johnson David Johnson Dhammasukha (talk) 18:23, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The AfD will decide the matter based on Wikipedia’s internal policies. Do not attempt to plead for an article to the kept without providing proper arguments within the framework of opposing its takedown for lack of Notability. Deathnotekll2 (talk) 20:32, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Be aware that all of the sources you have listed above are from dhammasukha.org, a website directly affiliated with Vimalaramsi. Deathnotekll2 (talk) 20:34, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete I searched for his name that couldn’t find any solid secondary sources to bolster the page with however it does appear that he was well known in certain circles of the Buddist community–I am wondering if there is another page his info can be merged with. Agnieszka653 (talk) 20:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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