Draft talk:Michael Katz (chef): Difference between revisions

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Hey, Orlando Davis. Which three sources support notability? Valereee (talk) 15:15, 21 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the top 3:

1)https://www.thehindu.com/life-and-style/food/take-the-dip-with-hummus/article17394436.ece1

2)https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/israels-cuisine-not-always-kosher-but-travelling-well-20110521-1ey1s.html

3)https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/dining-a-gourmet-experience-453077 Orlando Davis (talk) 18:04, 21 November 202

Orlando Davis (talk) 18:05, 21 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• The Hindu is RS, but coverage is who taught at Le Cordon Bleu London for three years, worked in Michelin-starred restaurants and now owns his own in Jerusalem (Adom, Colony and Lavan) which isn’t sigcov.
• Sydney Morning Herald is RS. Total coverage is Chef Katz’s contribution to Israeli cuisine is a strong European influence, reflecting his training as a young man at the L’Ecole du Palais Royal in Brussels. Now 41, he has spent 20 years as a chef in Israel, Europe and Mexico. As one of the most in-demand cooking lecturers in Israel, he has earned government-sponsored trips to the US, the Philippines and now Australia…Katz has given a twist to a favourite Israeli dish Not sigcov.
• Jerusalem Post is RS. I would call this sigcov, but it just squeaks by. That is local coverage, so the other two sources need to be not local/niche publications.

Valereee (talk) 18:16, 21 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What about these 2:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160728170820/http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4832915,00.html

https://13tv.co.il/item/yummies/food-news/snc4z-903579136/ Orlando Davis (talk) 18:25, 21 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know if you need help translating from Hebrew to English. Orlando Davis (talk) 18:49, 21 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The articles above were not reviewed yet. Neither were all of the ones below. Here is one I just found today. It provides provides substantial editorial framing and biographical summary:

Anon. “רק אלומה” (Only Aluma). Jerusalem Times, 5 May 2016, jerusalemtimes.co.il/אֹכֶל-וּשְׁתִיָּה/רַק-אַלוּמָה-2/. Orlando Davis (talk) 03:40, 23 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There are Wikipedia’s on Ynet & Channel 13. Orlando Davis (talk) 19:10, 21 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If the previous 2 aren’t enough, here are 3 more: Haaretz can be seen in the Wikipedia library. There are 2, one in English and one in Hebrew and this article should be visible in the Wikipedia library through Haaretz (Hebrew). The other 2 articles are in English.

1: https://www-haaretz-co-il.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/food/restaurants-reviews/2014-01-10/ty-article/.premium/0000017f-f073-d223-a97f-fdfff92f0000

2: https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/1077/israeli-cuisine-with-chef-michael-katz/

3: https://www.philstar.com/opinion/2011/05/13/685324/reforming-us-immigration-boon-filipinos Orlando Davis (talk) 19:57, 21 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the title of the Haaretz article if you don’t have access at the Wiki library or need to search: הפיתויים של מסעדת “הטרטוריה של חבה” בירושלים Orlando Davis (talk) 19:58, 21 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I didn’t feel like debating earlier because I figured that if one article didn’t convince you, another one would. But I don’t agree with what you said about the first three. The Hindu is sigcov because Katz is cited as an expert authority on Israeli food culture. It specifically details his elite international training: that he was an instructor at the notable organization Le Cordon Bleu in London, and that he worked in Michelin-starred restaurants. That is definitely more than trivial coverage. It’s sigcov.

The Sydney Morning Herald is also significant because of how it describes him as a prominent figure. The article’s biographical summary notes his 20 years of international experience (Europe, Mexico) and his status as one of the most in-demand cooking lecturers in Israel, and how he has been given government-sponsored trips to the US, Philippines, and Australia. That demonstrates that the Sydney Morning holds him in a high professional regard and that he has represented the nation of Israel abroad. That is not trivial; it’s definitely Sigcov.

As far as the Jpost article. It’s not a local source because Israel has small newspapers. But the Jerusalem Post is the number one newspaper for Anglo-Israelis and is read worldwide. Orlando Davis (talk) 02:16, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

These ones also pass sigcov. I gave you two links to the same one for Haaretz in case you don’t have access to the Wiki library. I’m happy to discuss why they pass with you if you don’t see that for yourself.

https://www.jpost.com/food-recipes/article-852065

https://fr.timesofisrael.com/la-finesse-des-grands-restaurants-etoiles-disponible-a-jerusalem/

https://food.walla.co.il/item/2949782?r=1

https://www-haaretz-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/food/2001-10-23/ty-article/its-a-war-on-fine-food-in-the-capital/0000017f-e088-d804-ad7f-f1faca5f0000

https://www.haaretz.com/food/2001-10-23/ty-article/its-a-war-on-fine-food-in-the-capital/0000017f-e0b4-d75c-a7ff-fcbd2ee10000

https://www.foodis.co.il/%D7%90%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%95-%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8-%D7%9E%D7%A7%D7%A6%D7%95%D7%A2%D7%99-%D7%A7%D7%A6%D7%AA-%D7%90%D7%97%D7%A8-%D7%9C%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%9C/#google_vignette Orlando Davis (talk) 03:07, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You say The Hindu is sigcov because Katz is cited as an expert authority on Israeli food culture. I don’t see where The Hindu is calling Katz an expert authority, but even if it were, that’s not what sigcov means. Significant coverage is discussion in detail and at some length. They say one 26-word sentence about him. The same is true for the SMH; calling him an in-demand cooking lecturer is not significant coverage. The LA Times is read worldwide, too, but on topics related to LA, it’s still local coverage. Valereee (talk) 11:39, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Haaretz is RS. The article is a restaurant review that mentions Katz once and says zero about him. Not sigcov.
• Lifestyle.Inq is Philippine Daily Inquirer, which is RS. The coverage is pretty thin but probably gets over the threshhold.
• Philippine Star is RS. Not sigcov.

There is a reason we ask for the best three, and it is partly for your own benefit. When you’ve presented us with 39 sources, you discourage reviewers. No one wants to go through 39 sources to figure out which ones you used to support notability. This is the exact reason I create articles the way I explained at Talk:Mastercooks of Belgium. I create the initial draft using sources that show notability. Then I go back and use other sources. This is so that when someone asks me to show my proof of notability, I can easily do it: I just go into the article history and look at the first few sources I used. I don’t have to waste my time, I don’t waste theirs. I’ve already assessed six to come up with 2 we can use. You have just thrown 6 more sources at me, asking me to assess them because you apparently haven’t bothered to. Please, we only need ONE. We need it to be RS. We need it to meet Wikipedia’s definition of sigcov, not your own personal definition. Valereee (talk) 11:59, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I get that reviewing a lot of sources is a lot of work. But, by saying you pick the top 3 or else I’m not accepting it, makes a potentially notable article not accepted because I didn’t pick the right 3. You did the same thing at the MasterCooks article. You said pick the first 3, but you didn’t agree with the first 3. But when you reviewed all of them, you realized that it was notable. I believe that if we did the same thing with this article, we will get the same result. As I said in the last article, if you want to pass on it, there are other reviewers. But I want to discuss other articles. There are many that pass Sigcov, not just 3. Orlando Davis (talk) 12:11, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And how much less time consuming and frustrating for both of us would that review have been if you’d just given me those three good sources in the first place instead of throwing everything against the wall to see what stuck? Valereee (talk) 12:36, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The way I see it, we have 2 sources that we agree on.

1) https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/dining-a-gourmet-experience-453077 Orlando Davis

2) https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/1077/israeli-cuisine-with-chef-michael-katz/

You are looking for a third. I think many of the articles pass sigcov, not just 3. but for the purpose of convincing you, here is another one:

Times of Israel passes SigCov. It’s not just a restaurant review, but an independently verified biography that justifies his notability. The articles discuss internationally recognized achievements. 1) Training in Michelin-starred restaurants. 2) An instructor at the prestigious Le Cordon Bleu London. 3) His membership in the elite professional group, The Mastercooks of Belgium. There is an editorial endorsement by saying “His CV impresses, and rightly so.” These details are non-trivial, in depth coverage of Kat’z career and standing in the culinary world.

Orlando Davis (talk) 13:08, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I got excited when you said an independently verified biography. A lengthy bio is exactly what we’re looking for, and Times of Israel is RS. But this can hardly be called a bio: Katz “recently took the helm of the Trattoria Haba bistro…is particularly known for having trained in Michelin-starred restaurants…is also a member of the Belgian Master Chefs Association and has taught at Le Cordon Bleu in London…His CV is impressive”. That’s literally all anyone ever seems to have to say, it’s like they’re quoting a provided bio. Which they may be.

Here’s how we assess for significant coverage: This is about forty words about him. But we’ve already accepted a source that is similarly thin, the Lifestyle.Inq. I’d be reluctant to accept another that is so close to the bone.

I am as surprised as anyone that someone who appears to be a prominent Israeli chef has apparently not received a single instance of detailed biographical coverage in Israeli media. Valereee (talk) 13:24, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This one has what you’re looking for: https://food.walla.co.il/item/2949782?r=1 Orlando Davis (talk) 13:29, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Walla! Communications Ltd is owned by the Jerusalem Post. However, the article was written while they were owned by Bezeq, which was a telecommunications company. Hm. I’m going to add it to the list below and ask for a second review. Valereee (talk) 13:49, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Times of Israel is a top source. It is recognized by Wikipedia as a top-tier, reliable source, meaning we operate under the assumption that they verify the professional claims they publish. Significant coverage isn’t strictly defined; it just can’t be trivial. The content is not trivial: 1) Michelin Training; 2) Le Cordon Bleu Instructor; 3) Mastercook of Belgium. Orlando Davis (talk) 13:38, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have no doubt that those three things are accurate. Valereee (talk) 14:29, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Haaretz passes Sigocv because it names him as the head of the restaurant they are reviewing, and it describes his restaurant’s food as excellent ” It puts the restaurant in the context of “Arcadi” and “Adon Cohehn”, so the highest echelon of Israeli gastronomy. It calls his Sea Bass Carpaccio “surprising, brilliant, and versatile, the Focaccia is praised as a “great combination” that is “balanced and exceptional, The Fish Patties are called the “queen of fish patties. Even the criticism (the overdone pasta dishes) is significant coverage because it analyzes his work in detail, explaining that the kitchen is otherwise able to put out two identical dishes easily. This shows skill and consistency. That is not trivial coverage. it is significant. Orlando Davis (talk) 12:25, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Haaretz passes Sigocv because it names him as the head of the restaurant. That is an incorrect understanding of what sigcov entails.

You do have to pick the right ones. The right ones are those that are RS, fulfill sigcov, and are independent of the subject, and at least two need to be nonlocal/non-niche. As an article creator, it is your role to understand what that entails. I have shown in detail, on about two dozen sources at this point between the two reviews, how sources are assessed. Take that learning, go into those six new sources you’ve offered above, assess them the way I’ve been showing you, and bring back ONE that fulfills the minimum requirements. Valereee (talk) 12:27, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You are a reviewer. I am a writer. 2 different jobs. I am doing my best to satisfy you, but I think you again, are making excuses on purposes. Because in the time you spend arguing with me, we could just review the sources. That is why we have reviewers. You refuse to review. Orlando Davis (talk) 12:35, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am reviewing. This is how we review: we check the sources to make sure the minimum requirements for notability are met. That is the first step.

As the writer, you know the sources you used. You know — or you should — which ones support notability. Asking me to go through 39 sources that I haven’t seen before is not reasonable when you already know the sources. Valereee (talk) 12:38, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And you said, I didn’t bother. That’s not true. Orlando Davis (talk) 12:29, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Same thing I responded the last time: Significant coverage” addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material.This is how I am backing what I am saying. How are you backing what you are saying? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability

Orlando Davis (talk) 12:31, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The coverage addresses the food in detail, in a review. It does not discuss the subject of this article in detail, which is a person. The fact his food gets reviewed is not detailed or indepth coverage of him. Valereee (talk) 12:41, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That misses the core principle of notability for a chef. For a chef, the food is the person’s work and reflects their expertise, which is precisely why such a person is notable. To demand that an article about a chef be about their hobbies or opinions rather than their work would be unreasonable within the culinary field. Orlando Davis (talk) 13:15, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If Katz had two notable restaurants, that would probably do it. It usually does it for authors. For that we need the articles on the restaurants.

Yes and no on the notability of a chef. Of course their food — or their restaurateurship, or their work in tv, or their winning of a prominent award like the James Beard Awards — gets attention. Generally when their food (or whatever) is getting great reviews, someone decides to do a feature article about them. That feature, along with the two sources we’ve already identified, would support notability. Valereee (talk) 13:29, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here are two notable restaurants:

1. Trattoria Haba (Jerusalem

2. Aluma Restaurant (Jerusalem)

1. Gordon, Buzzy. “New and Noteworthy in Jerusalem: Anna, Aluma and the Garden Terrace.” YnetNews, 25 July 2016. Accessed 13 Nov. 2025.
2. https://food.walla.co.il/item/2949782?r=1
3. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/dining-a-gourmet-experience-453077

Orlando Davis (talk) 14:08, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

3. Michael Andrew (Jerusalem)

1. Siton, Rafi. https://www.globes.co.il/news/article.aspx?did=469053
2. https://www.haaretz.com/food/2001-10-23/ty-article/its-a-war-on-fine-food-in-the-capital/0000017f-e0b4-d75c-a7ff-fcbd2ee10000
3. Clarissa Hyman, The Jewish Kitchen: Recipes and Stories from Around the World,
4. London: Conran Octopus, 2003, p. 35.
5. Joan Nathan, The Foods of Israel Today, New York: AA Knopf, 2001, p. 133.

For other editors to accept something like ‘has 2 notable restaurants’ as a support to notability of a chef, those restaurants would need to have articles. Valereee (talk) 14:45, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a top article on Trattoria Haba (Jerusalem) and Katz: https://web.archive.org/web/20241204064206/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4691028,00.html

Should we add it to the bottom?

Orlando Davis (talk) 15:05, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here are 2 more for Trattoria Haba (Jerusalem)

https://food.walla.co.il/item/2687963?r=1

https://www.timeout.com/israel/restaurants/trattoria-haba Orlando Davis (talk) 14:52, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you decide to write those articles, do a thorough source assessment first by asking yourself “Is this reliable? Is it independent? Does it represent significant coverage according to Wikipedia. I can see just from the URLs that debbestfood.com is a blog. Then pick the three that will be convincing to other editors and write your first draft from those three. THEN start adding content from other reliable sources. Valereee (talk) 14:54, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’m still working on gathering these. When I am done I will list them at the bottom. Orlando Davis (talk) 14:56, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve opened a separate section for those. I’m not sure they’re helpful until the articles are created. Valereee (talk) 15:10, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Then if you did bother to assess the sources before writing the article, you should know exactly which ones you used to support notability. Valereee (talk) 12:39, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For purposes of others not having to go through the above discussion, here are the best three sources we can find. I am asking for a second review because all three are a bit thin and I’m not sure this is getting Katz over the hump, want to get someone else’s take.

1. Jerusalem Post. Link A bit thin on coverage.
2. Philippine Daily Inquirer. Link A bit thin on coverage.
3. Walla! Communications Ltd.e.inquirer.net/1077/israeli- Link Walla! is owned by the Jerusalem Post. However, the article was written while they were owned by Bezeq, which was a telecommunications company. A bit thin on coverage. Valereee (talk) 13:53, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
4. Orlando Davis adding to Valereee’s post here: This should be the 4th push it over the top: Jerusalem Times, Link — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orlando Davis (talk • contribs)

I’m not convinced finding sources that support his restaurants being notable is helpful for supporting a claim to notability for Katz unless they’re used to create articles on those restaurants, but Orlando Davis, you can list them here for a second reviewer to consider. Valereee (talk) 15:09, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It’s not if the restaurant has a Wikipedia, but that it could qualify for one. That’s the same as having one. Orlando Davis (talk) 15:17, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you’d have to convince other editors that’s so. My take on it was a generalization from WP:NCREATIVE, which has often been understood to mean things like an author or artist with two notable works. Generalizing to chefs is not an interpretation I’ve seen, so it’s all just theory until there’s consensus. ETA: The place to ask would be Wikipedia talk:Notability (people). Valereee (talk) 15:42, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the ones I have so far. I will keep adding as I find more:

1. Trattoria Haba (Jerusalem

2. Aluma Restaurant (Jerusalem)

1. Gordon, Buzzy. “From Michelin to Mahane Yehuda Market.” Ynetnews, 17 Aug. 2015.

1. https://food.walla.co.il/item/2949782?r=1
2. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/dining-a-gourmet-experience-453077
3. Laor, Yael, and the Mako Editorial Team. “ירושלים מתעוררת: הכירו את מסעדת אלומה החדשה והיוקרתית.” Mako — אוכל, 4 Apr. 2016.
4. https://jerusalemtimes.co.il/%D7%90%D7%95%D7%9B%D7%9C-%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%99%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%A7-%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%94-2/

3. Michael Andrew (Jerusalem)

1. Siton, Rafi. https://www.globes.co.il/news/article.aspx?did=469053
2. https://www.haaretz.com/food/2001-10-23/ty-article/its-a-war-on-fine-food-in-the-capital/0000017f-e0b4-d75c-a7ff-fcbd2ee10000
3. Clarissa Hyman. https://archive.org/details/jewishkitchenrec0000hyma_o9w2/page/20/mode/2up?q=michael+Katz, *The Jewish Kitchen*, Conran Octopus, 2003, p. 35.
4. Joan Nathan. https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Foods_of_Israel_Today/cMXgAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0&bsq=katz, *The Foods of Israel Today*, Alfred A. Knopf, 2001, p. 133.

4. ALUT–Attilio Professional Cooking Course (2024–2025)

1. https://13tv.co.il/item/special/shavim-bataasuka/m24vw-903902011/
2. https://thejewishweekly.com/culinary-inclusion-a-groundbreaking-program-for-aspiring-chefs-with-autism/
3. https://shavvim.co.il/2025/01/13/%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%A1%D7%98%D7%A8-%D7%A9%D7%A3-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%A6%D7%A3/

Orlando Davis (talk) 15:42, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Orlando Davis, don’t keep adding. Keep pruning out the ones that are weakest so you’re only left with the three best for each restaurant. I feel like you think more is better. It’s not. Better is better. Valereee (talk) 15:46, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that it would make it easier. However, there is a flaw in that. What I think the best three sources are, is not necessarily what other editors are going to think. Orlando Davis (talk) 15:50, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Once you have a clear understanding of the requirements, that will be easier for you to predict. Your biggest issue seems to be your understanding of sigcov. From among the reliable sources, pick the three that have the most detailed coverage of the restaurant. Not just the food, we want to see discussion of things like atmosphere/ambiance, service, location, history, the building, what the crowd is like, dishes they’re known for, the chef. Short routine reviews are not sigcov for a restaurant. Valereee (talk) 16:13, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I want to be clear that I’m not trying to argue, but I do want to express a concern. When a reviewer asks for only “the top three sources” and then dismisses them, it can sometimes create a situation where an article that meets notability risks being rejected based on a narrow selection rather than the full body of available sourcing. I’m sure that’s not the intention, but it can feel discouraging for editors who are trying to demonstrate notability in good faith. That was also the issue I had with the AFD discussion on the previous Katz article. Orlando Davis (talk) 16:22, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also, even though it was hard to persuade you. I do appreciate the work you did in narrowing it down for the next reviewer. I will now wait for the next reviewer. Orlando Davis (talk) 16:29, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It’s fine, I want to help you learn.

When I ask for the best three sources, what I’m looking for is three that are RS, independent, and indisputably significant coverage — lengthy detail about the subject. The primary reason I keep shooting down your sources this time through is they don’t meet Wikipedia’s interpretation of significant coverage. You’ve only brought in IIRC one iffy source re: RS this time, so you’re making progress.

I understand it’s frustrating and can be discouraging when you think you’re doing what is being asked and people keep telling you something isn’t significant coverage. 25 words is never going to be significant coverage, no matter what those words are. Well, if they’re “The winner of this year’s Nobel prize for literature is Michael Katz”, sure. That is an award so major that it basically confers notability on its recipient. There are very, very few similar exceptions.

But get it out of your head that someone calling him prominent or renowned, someone saying his restaurants are among the best in the city, someone giving him an award that is given to a dozen people every year is going to support notability. It simply isn’t what past consensus from 25 years of thousands of editors debating in tens of thousands of discussions has decided. Valereee (talk) 16:45, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That is your interpretation. It’s not supported by the Wikipedia guidelines. I would like to end this conversation here. Orlando Davis (talk) 16:53, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am happy to revisit the discussion if you’d like to go through the sources one by one. I’d prefer not to revisit points we’ve already covered in detail. Orlando Davis (talk) 17:55, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’d be happy to, but you don’t seem to trust my interpretation. I’d suggest you ask at Wikipedia talk:Notability (people) whether the things I’ve said here and at Talk:Mastercooks of Belgium/Archive 1 are just my interpretation, or are generally correct in describing how the community assesses sigcov. The folks there are experts. Valereee (talk) 18:18, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think that it is ok if we don’t agree about everything, since you might agree with some of my interpretation. Orlando Davis (talk) 18:59, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know if you have time to weigh in on sources. Orlando Davis (talk) 18:59, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have time. I want you first to get clear in your own head on whether or not I’m blowing smoke up your ass. Go to Wikipedia talk:Notability (people). Ask there for someone to take a gander at the discussions here and the one at Talk:Mastercooks of Belgium/Archive 1. See if you get an answer that satisfies you that I know what I’m talking about and am not just spouting off opinions. Then come back here and ping me. Valereee (talk) 19:08, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I may do that, but I have some things I want to do first.

On that article, you deleted something like 20 plus sources while it was under an AfD. All of them were acceptable, either as reliable sources or sources that could be used for factual purposes. Why? That was my work that I did to try to convince people that work had been done to improve it, and that whatever the AfD process was about was no longer relevant. Why did you do that?

And Polygnamus signaled to my prior AfDs I was in a long time ago, and implied that my work must not be good because of them. I didn’t want to mention this then because it’s a personal attack. But as he or she was doing that to me, he or she was simultaneously involved in an edit war, which puts doubt into the validity of polygnamus putting this article for deletion in the first place. Orlando Davis (talk) 19:35, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I went through the article to try to see if there were three good sources. A lot of what was in there was bs sourced to self sources, iffy sources, some blogs, etc. I get rid of that stuff so I can see what’s left. What I’m trying to do when I do that is trim the article to usable sources to see if we can save it.

When we’re discussing another editor, we should ping them. Valereee (talk) 20:31, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t want to ping Polygnamus. I would rather avoid him. In the AFD, you didn’t give the conversation a chance to assess if the sources were valid. I know that there were no bad sources. Two I remember you taking down are Haaretz and the Philippine Inquirer, which you now believe helps the article meet Sigcov. I took down one source because I couldn’t verify that it existed. But the rest are good sources. And I’m still trying to find the one I took down. Orlando Davis (talk) 20:54, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you don’t want to ping an editor, don’t name them.

In that AfD, I wrote Lots of mentions, but I’m not finding much sigcov, so if someone can point me at something I’m missing that isn’t just a bare mention or isn’t just him being quoted at length, I’m kind of stumped. With this number of mentions, I’m a bit surprised we aren’t finding a lengthy bio in Israeli media. Israel has food journalism. This article has the distinct feel of a folder of clippings of every time he’s ever been mentioned being handed to a not-very-experienced editor-for-hire, so I feel like if there were actual sig cov out there, we’d be seeing it. Transliteration makes things difficult, but I’ll try to do some more research…Literally finding nothing via a Google search and filtering by ‘News’. Not sure how that qualifies as didn’t give the conversation a chance to assess if the sources were valid. I didn’t close that discussion. I only participated. Valereee (talk) 00:08, 23 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I would like to request a third opinion regarding the Wikipedia article on Michael Katz. There is ongoing discussion on whether the sources demonstrate significant coverage (WP:SIGCOV) and meet notability guidelines (WP:Notability).

Several of the sources are in Hebrew. A reviewer familiar with Hebrew might help verify the content and assess whether it qualifies as significant coverage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orlando Davis (talk • contribs)