== Added Nabatean architecture to the History of Architecture ==
== Added Nabatean architecture to the History of Architecture ==
Even if you disagree with my edits regarding Islamic architecture why did you delete the Nabatean Architecture [[User:Prosnu|Prosnu]] ([[User talk:Prosnu|talk]]) 14:54, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
Even if you disagree with my edits regarding Islamic architecture why did you delete the Nabatean Architecture [[User:Prosnu|Prosnu]] ([[User talk:Prosnu|talk]]) 14:54, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
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Hello, @R Prazeres!
Ive recently created these two articles (Benachour massacre of 5 January 1997 and Benachour massacre of 5 December 1996) and ive realized that they are both in the same exact village, and have just exactly a month of difference, however i think having two articles would be too much, and ive been wondering seeing as you are interested in the topic of North Africa if i should merge these two into one. (Possibly something like Benachour Massacres).
Thanks! 🙂 Algerianeditor17 (talk) 23:41, 26 July 2025 (UTC)
Why was the word Arab removed but the word “berber” kept in the same context? were the Umayyads, Nasrids, Aghlabids are all Arabic dynasties Prosnu (talk) 23:12, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
Hello [@R Prazeres] Thank you for reviewing my edits and comments. I understand the concern behind the phrase “Wikipedia is not a dictionary” and I agree that adding dictionary-style definitions to the main article should be avoided. However, I just wanted to clarify that I don’t mean to add a short dictionary entry, but rather to address a historical/linguistic issue: the Arabic use of the term “dawla” in the Middle Ages, and how some modern readings of phrases like “state of the Turks” or “state of the Circassians” might lead to interpreting the Mamluk political system as an “ethnic” Turkish or Circassian state, rather than understanding the term as a dynastic/period designation in many contexts. In general, this type of focus on things that lead to understanding and adopting a theory influences the understanding of history and other dimensions, but the goal is an encyclopedic account to explain something within the framework of Wikipedia’s content itself. What I am saying is not new, but there are many examples, such as Macedonia and the origins of the word Jerusalem and Tulunids and Ikhshidid. To avoid distracting from the main historical narrative, I propose this compromise: I will prepare a draft article (userspace or draft namespace) on this topic. It will present: (a) examples from primary medieval texts, (b) interpretations by contemporary historians with full citations, (c) examples from academic and recent research, and (d) the historiographical implications of reading Mamluk identity. I will follow the WP:V / WP:NOR / MoS guidelines. If the community agrees, I will add a short, neutral line to the name section of the main Mamluk Sultanate article with a link to the draft (for readers who want more detail). Or perhaps not yet, and it can be considered later, e.g., I will post a link to the draft on this talk page and welcome your comments/cooperation. Do you accept this approach? So, bro, do we have a deal ‘-‘? Yosf22ww (talk) 22:28, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
Dear R Prazeres, we were in touch a few years ago, my name is Stephennie Mulder, I’m a professor of Islamic art who oversees the annual #StudentsOfIslamicArt edit-a-thon (meetup page here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup_StudentsofIslamicArt). Your work on Wikipedia and particularly on Islamic topics is so excellent, I am a huge fan.
I will be running the assignment again this fall with my class at UT Austin in a collaboration with classes at the University of California Merced and the University of Delaware. I am now gathering a list of articles on medieval Islamic art and architecture for the students in my class to edit, and I thought I’d reach out and see if you have any suggestions for articles on medieval topics you’d like to see expanded or created. I know you have a few on your page marked as stubs, would be glad to start there. But I thought I’d ask if there are any you’d like to see them work on in particular.
I oversee this assignment closely, but because this is student work, it is not always quite as polished as it might be were a subject area expert to work on an article, so I offer that caveat! But I typically find that the experience of editing Wikipedia is deeply illuminating for students on many fronts.
Anyway, would be happy for your thoughts, and truly grateful for the excellent work you do here!
Stephennie
ArtsOfIslam (talk) 21:06, 13 September 2025 (UTC)
- Hi Stephennie, thank you for your very kind message. I’m happy to hear my contributions are seen as positive!
- As a quick general thought: I think students (and new editors) do seem to make the most positive contributions when picking a topic with narrow scope — like a single monument or single significant object, or a particular type of art in a particular period/region, etc. — that hasn’t received much work yet. On broad topics or topics that have significant coverage already, they seem to struggle to find a good direction to go and to find good-quality sources that allow them to improve on the existing material. At least, that’s been my impression.
- From what I can think of, I know there are many lesser-known but significant historical monuments that have not received much attention yet. I’ve made a very incomplete list of suggestions below, but it’s biased by the topics I’ve personally worked on, so there’s certainly more than these.
- In Turkey:
- In Syria and Palestine (most of these are Mamluk; I’ve barely surveyed later periods yet):
- There’s also a large number of stubs for madrasas and mosques in Tunis: see Category:Mosques in Tunis and Category:Madrasas in the medina of Tunis. Although some of them may not have much information available in WP:RS and students are likely to need some French abilities to research these effectively.
- I’ve barely scratched the surface of sites in Iran and Central Asia, so I have fewer suggestions to offer, but a couple that have come to my mind previously:
- Beyond architecture, one area of Islamic art that I think has received relatively less attention on Wikipedia is metalwork. So far, there’s a paragraph on it at Islamic art#Metalwork, articles on a few individual pieces, and some period-specific summaries in larger articles (e.g. Almohad Caliphate#Metalwork, Mamluk Sultanate#Art, and Abbasid art#Metalwork). I’m not sure which specific topics to suggest, but we generally lack dedicated articles on the topic, if that inspires anything!
- I hope some of the above is helpful. I’ll be busy in the coming weeks but feel free to contact me again if helpfu; and I’ll be happy to look again. Cheers, R Prazeres (talk) 19:04, 14 September 2025 (UTC)
- PS: If you wanted a very short list of suggestions, then the ones I’d be most happy to see improved/created from above might be:
- R Prazeres (talk) 19:46, 14 September 2025 (UTC)
As far as I know, Wikipedia reverts are made within established rules. I’m worried that someone didn’t feel the need for my contribution on the Qibla issue, and that my contributions have hit a conservative wall. NGC 628 (talk) 07:20, 17 September 2025 (UTC)
- I’m not sure what that statement is even trying to convey, but the tone of self-righteousness isn’t convincing. You have been asked many, many times to stop pushing the same POV and you’ve been warned recently more than once to stop resorting to WP:OR. It’s not even the first time I’ve told you that it’s not the first time ([4]). There really isn’t an excuse for this anymore and you are setting yourself up for possible accusations of being a tendentious or single-purpose editor. Take this as yet another warning. R Prazeres (talk) 19:03, 17 September 2025 (UTC)
- I have never challenged the perpetrators for any reversals that were accompanied by the necessary explanations. It’s true that I work in certain areas, and anyone can do this. All I ask is that you to demonstrate that this reversal is based on a properly implemented Wikipedia policy. It’s vital for all of us and for our policies of impartiality that this action not be taken to fulfill someone’s taboos.
Additionally, I watched a few videos about changing the qibla in Islam and saw that you also have a strong interest in Islamic architecture. The qibla is also a subject related to architecture. I would be very grateful if you could share your knowledge on this subject. Regards.
NGC 628 (talk) 06:25, 18 September 2025 (UTC)
There’s a new editor trying to get Wikipedia:WikiProject Crusades off the ground, if you’ve any interest in lending a hand. — asilvering (talk) 23:12, 26 September 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks for the heads-up! I’ll keep it in mind. R Prazeres (talk) 01:51, 27 September 2025 (UTC)
I appreciate your help on the Al-Marwani page. Now regarding the flag or banners used by the Umayyads in Al-Andalus they used multiple ones but the personal standard for the emir/caliph was the green one. This goes back to the Battle of Al-Musara where the young price Abd al-Rahman I Al-Dakhil defeated the pro Abbasid forces of Yusuf al-Fihri outside the gates of Cordoba. The young prince did not have a banner, so he used his green turban and a spear as his banner before the battle. This is recorded by Arabic sources. That afterwards became the symbol of the Andalusi Umayyads, although line other Islamic dynasties they used multiple banners like the Ottomans or the Abbasids. Then we have the documented case of Caliph Abd al-Rahman III personal banner displayed proudly in military parades which is only a personal variation of the original green banner of Abd al-Rahman I where he just added a white eagle in the middle of the green banner. This was an innovation to the time since displaying animals in flags was not very common in Islamic symbols this early in history and made scholars to comment on it. I can provide the sources for this, Arabic and Spanish. Because of this I am putting both flags back, as variations of the symbols used by the Marwanid Umayyads in Al-Andalus. Btw the green turban banner of Abd al-Rahman I is mentioned on his Wikipedia article. Andalusi97 (talk) 21:53, 8 October 2025 (UTC)
- Hi @Andalusi97. Please do not re-add the flags unless you’ve discussed this and gotten consensus at Talk:Umayyad Caliphate, where this issue has been discussed previously. In order for any such flag to be accepted, it has to be clearly and fully verifiable in reliable (secondary) sources (which would mean modern academic references). As far as I’ve seen, there is no scholarly support for identifying a particular image as the banner (or one of the banners) of the Umayyads, but if there is, please present it at the talk page I mentioned. Thanks, R Prazeres (talk) 22:00, 8 October 2025 (UTC)
- References for Umayyad colors:
- • 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica: “he had no banner, and one was improvised by unwinding a green turban and binding it round the head of a spear. The turban and the spear became the banner of the Spanish Omayyads.”
- • R. Marín-Guzmán: “the symbol of opposition to the Umayyads, whose banner was white.” (peer-reviewed) 
- • D. Alexander (Gladius, 2000) notes al-Ṭabarī’s attribution of a white flag to an Umayyad prince (i.e., white as Umayyad color in early Islamic warfare).
- • Arabic discussions of banners likewise present white for the Umayyads and black for the ʿAbbāsids (and often green for the Fāṭimids/Āl al-Bayt), e.g.:
- • Jordan’s Royal Hashemite Court explainer on historic banners.
- References in APA style
- • 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica. (1911). Abd-ar-Rahman (Vol. 1). In Encyclopædia Britannica (11th ed.). Retrieved from https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Abd-ar-Rahman 
- • Marín-Guzmán, R. (2004). Arab Tribes, the Umayyad Dynasty, and the ‘Abbasid Revolution [PDF]. Arab Journal of Islamic and Social Sciences. Retrieved from https://www.ajis.org/index.php/ajiss/article/download/513/2258/4987 
- • Britannica. (n.d.). ʿAbd al-Raḥmān I. In Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved from https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abd-al-Rahman-I 
- • The Royal Hashemite Court. (n.d.). The Hashemite Flags. Retrieved from https://rhc.jo/en/the-hashemite-flags 
- • IslamicHistory.org. (n.d.). The Umayyads. Retrieved from https://islamichistory.org/the-umayyads/ 
- Andalusi97 (talk) 22:10, 8 October 2025 (UTC)
- Some of these are not reliable sources (not academic publications) and the others are merely passing mentions of a colour or a vague symbol. This is not sufficient reference for recreating a full flag, and WP:OR means we don’t allow editors to propose their own personal reconstructions based on incomplete information. If professional historians themselves have not reconstructed it and agreed on it, then it’s not for Wikipedia. Reports of the white banner are mentioned inline at Umayyad Caliphate (see also this archived discussion if needed), but we can’t verify more than that. R Prazeres (talk) 22:19, 8 October 2025 (UTC)
- Ibn Ḥayyān’s claim (as mediated by modern scholarship)
- • Some modern Spanish/Andalusian historical treatments assert that Ibn Ḥayyān (a major Andalusi chronicle author) explicitly describes that ʿAbd al-Raḥmān III used an eagle emblem (ʿuqāb / áquila / “águila”) on his banner in a campaign “in infidel territory (fi ‘ard ghayr mu’min)” during the 934 expedition (Osma campaign). One article says:
- “El cronista Ibn Hayyan describe el emblema del águila que el primer califa Abd al-Rahman III usó ‘en territorio infiel’ con motivo de la campaña contra Osma en 934, siendo este símbolo ‘inventado, pues ningún sultán la tuvo antes’.”
- Another Spanish-language article claims that the eagle (ʿuqāb) “la divisa más celebrada por las fuentes árabes peninsulares … utilizada en los estandartes guerreros durante el califato.”
- • In the article Ceremonial y guerra santa en al-Andalus (s. X), the author (E. Cardoso) argues that by using that banner, ʿAbd al-Raḥmān III was sending ritual and symbolic messages in the context of jihad/ghāzī imagery.
- So the claim is that the eagle was first used in a campaign in 934, as a novel emblem, and then became celebrated as one of the main divisas (standards) of the Caliphate.
- • There is no solid textual evidence from Arabic chronicles to reliably locate that can state the color scheme (i.e. “green field,” “white eagle”) or the exact blazon of ʿAbd al-Raḥmān’s eagle standard. But the eagle standard is well attested, whether it was green or white. Similar to the flags of the Ottoman Empire where they used multiple Crescent flags in red and green. Andalusi97 (talk) 22:21, 8 October 2025 (UTC)
- https://cosasdecordoba.com/el-aguila-de-abderraman-iii/ Andalusi97 (talk) 22:26, 8 October 2025 (UTC)
- If you still want to pursue this, then like I said, propose it at Talk:Umayyad state of Córdoba (for discussion of the Cordoban Umayyads, or at Talk:Umayyad Caliphate if you’re talking about the earlier caliphs of course) rather than here, so that other editors can read it. You’ll need to provide the exact citations to the relevant statements by scholars (e.g. author, title, page number), and preferably you should quote the relevant excerpts again if the original text is not publicly accessible (if it’s accessible online, then you can just link to it, but clarify the author and page anyways to be safe). If the excerpts you cite above are accurate, then to me they just look like information that can be summarized by text inside the article, not represented indirectly via an image; that’s what is already done in multiple articles with similar situations. R Prazeres (talk) 22:30, 8 October 2025 (UTC)
Can you help me to find the date related separation of golden horde from mongol empire Vexnoid (talk) 15:51, 14 October 2025 (UTC)
- Hi, I believe de facto independence would also be dated to around 1260, based on the sources I linked in our other discussion at Talk:Ilkhanate, though you may still want to read a bit further in those sources (and in other relevant references). That is also what is explained at the Golden Horde article. If you have further questions about that topic, I suggest you open a discussion at Talk:Golden Horde. Cheers, R Prazeres (talk) 16:54, 14 October 2025 (UTC)
Even if you disagree with my edits regarding Islamic architecture why did you delete the Nabatean Architecture? Prosnu (talk) 14:54, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
