Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League: Difference between revisions

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:::::::::In my opinion, it still doesn’t make the game [[WP:NOTABLE]]. However, since [[2025 Los Angeles Rams–Seattle Seahawks game]] has already been created, it seems that at least one other editor agrees with you and therefore I don’t see the point in arguing further. [[User:Assadzadeh|Assadzadeh]] ([[User talk:Assadzadeh|talk]]) 19:14, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::OK, thanks for the clarification, doesn’t the article violate [[Wikipedia:DELAY]] [[User:Dafootballguy|Dafootballguy]] ([[User talk:Dafootballguy|talk]]) 19:15, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::Yes, my point exactly, which is why I don’t think any of the articles should have been created. As I suggested, these games could either be included in the overall season article or each individual team’s season article. [[User:Assadzadeh|Assadzadeh]] ([[User talk:Assadzadeh|talk]]) 19:23, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

== Participating teams franchise navboxes on playoff pages ==

I have approved this article for mainspace based on the novel aspects of it having been played in Brazil, being the first NFL game broadcast on YouTube, and having a viral MrBeast promo, but the actual details of the game played are still lacking, if anyone wants to, ahem, tackle those. Cheers! BD2412 T 04:22, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This article dedicates more text to Mr. Beast and the halftime show than the game itself. So, considering that it’s been over two weeks since your request for “actual details” and over three months since the game was played, I doubt that anyone will take on the challenge to add anything about the game. As such, I have nominated this article for deletion as it is not WP:NOTABLE. Assadzadeh (talk) 15:43, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I just now saw the now-archived discussion about which infobox to use for college coaches that also played in the NFL. I wanted to apologize too, because I believe I reversed whoever changed Tom Osborne‘s infobox to the gridiron one. Nevertheless, I wanted to expand on this to discuss the “Awards and highlights” section. I think since it is divided into “Playing” and “Coaching” for the “Career history” section, we should do this for the “Awards and highlights” section as well (this is already done for Jim Harbaugh). Right now it is such a mish-mash in inconsistency across many infoboxes in what header is used, as some do “As player:“, “As a player:“, “As player“, or “As a player“, so this would streamline it better.

Nevertheless, I fully support this movement to migrate toward the gridiron infobox, as I am personally not really a big fan of the college coach infobox. I’d like to eventually see all college coaches, regardless of whether they played in the NFL or not, to use the gridiron infobox, but that is of course something for the College football WikiProject. Red0ctober22 (talk) 22:51, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

RedOctober22, thanks for reopening this discussion. It was last discussed in October to early November here. We’ve discussed this before going a few years as well, likely at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football. I certainly understand using Infobox gridiron football biography for someone like Jim Harbaugh, even two years ago when he was still at Michigan, because of his significant NFL career, both as a player and coach, even before his return to the NFL with the Chargers. But I am against a wholesale migration away from Infobox college coach, which was designed to service the full history and breath of college athletics across multiple sports.

Back in October, UCO2009bluejay argued that “Belichick and DeBoer should have the same Infobox as Tom Landry. Pitino, or Roy Williams should have the same as Phil Jackson.” I would argue that Kalen DeBoer should have the same infobox as Wallace Wade, as they are both members of a series of Alabama head football coaches, and that Wallace Wade should have the same infobox as Mark Byington and Tim Corbin, as Wade and Byington are both members of a series of Vandy basketball coaches, and Wade and Corbin are members of a series of Vandy baseball coaches. The historical core of multi-sport coaches like Wade is vast: e.g. Guy L. Rathbun, Robert L. Mathews, Phog Allen, Howard Jones (American football coach), Wally Marks, Josh Cody, etc. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:19, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Osborne example Without getting into solutions yet, one of the problems pointed out in the Oct discussion was Tom Osborne’s infobox at the time:

It had “Playing career” displayed inside “Coaching career”.
It had another “Football career” section showing his NFL playing stats—Bagumba (talk) 06:27, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, things can get tricky when nesting infoboxes inside of other infoboxes. The problem with the Osborne infobox was about labels at the top of embedded infoboxes inside other infoboxes, right? Jweiss11 (talk) 21:35, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Jweiss11: There was significant discussion at WT:NFL about this very issue as you mentioned above. I think there is a significant disconnect between the NFL and CFB projects. I get the impression that there are editors at the NFL project that think that their project should hold precedence over the CFB project, and vice versa. Maybe if I post messages on the CFB project, they should not be overlooked because that project is not the only forum to get consensus. This ignore and hope it goes away strategy will bite us in the glutes one day.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 03:00, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Now back to the topic at hand. I think that eventually that there needs to be more uniformity across specific sports. I stand by what I said above.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 03:06, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, you want uniformity within specific sports. So how do you handle multi-sport coaches? Jweiss11 (talk) 23:23, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’d start with the modern-day FBS coaches, who are (mostly/all?) single sport. For the former NFL players, I’d propose not reformatting infoboxes (and losing NFL player stats) as they transition from NFL player or NFL coach to college coach or visa versa —Bagumba (talk) 23:46, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Bagumba, I agree with you about for former NFL players. But can you address the multi-sport coaches issue head on, because if you “start with the modern-day FBS coaches”, you’re quickly going to run into Wallace Wades, Josh Codys, and Wally Markses. As an exercise to model the long-term implications of this proposed migration, can take we take, say, the 29 bio articles at List of Alabama Crimson Tide head football coaches, and list out which infobox each of them should have? And then, maybe, do the same exercise for all the existing bio articles at Template:Vanderbilt Commodores men’s basketball coach navbox. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:19, 13 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’m indifferent on multi-sports coaches who didn’t play in the NFL (or NBA). Perhaps if the rationale for the current multi-sport implementation is documented, people won’t feel compelled to suggest changes. —Bagumba (talk) 06:01, 14 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For WikiProjects that participate in rating articles, the banners for talk pages usually say something like:

There is a proposal to change the default wording on the banners to say “priority” instead of “importance”. This could affect the template for your group. Please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council#Proposal to update wording on WikiProject banners. Stefen 𝕋ower ^{Huddle • Handiwerk} 19:46, 6 December 2025 (UTC) (on behalf of the WikiProject Council)[reply]

List of NFL longest winning streaks includes multi-season regular season and multi-season post-season winning streaks, but does not include the multi-season regular and post-season combined winning streaks. Combined win streaks are much more commonly acknowledged and covered (Pro Football HoF Longest NFL winning streaks – https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2015/12/news-longest-nfl-winning-streaks/, Pro Football Reference – https://www.pro-football-reference.com/pfr-blog/2024/08/longest-nfl-winning-streaks-part-2/ , NFL https://www.nfl.com/videos/schrager-chiefs-have-the-longest-win-streak-of-any-nfl-team-since-the-2010-2011-packers-gmfb ) than winning streaks that only include one category of games and has been included in the NFL Records and Factbook. Excluding win streaks that include all competitive games based on not including combined regular season/post-season stats, while including winning streaks interrupted by losses, seems silly to me. 13:12, 8 December 2025 (UTC) PantsB (talk) 13:12, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Since you have already started a conversation at the target page, it makes sense to continue the discussion there, with a note on this page notifying editors of the discussion. Assadzadeh (talk) 14:46, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve noticed that on every individual team season pages, the box scores for upcoming games are already filled with zeros for each quarter and the final score. This can be misleading, especially since an NFL regular season game can end in a 0–0 tie. It would be clearer to use em dashes in the box scores of future games instead of zeros. Once the game begins or concludes, those placeholders could then be replaced with the actual scores as the game progresses or after it ends. This method is similar to how box scores for future games are handled on MLB postseason pages. TheVoicelessWriter (talk) 02:08, 9 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In principle, I’d agree with this suggestion unless someone provides a compelling rationale to the contrary. Left guide (talk) 06:36, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Makes sense to me. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:36, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Assadzadeh (talk) 07:45, 16 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I was about to attempt the changes per consensus here, but noticed on previewing that the “total” field of {{Americanfootballbox}} isn’t compatible with dashes, and instead pops up an error message as demonstrated in my sandbox. Maybe one of our project’s template gurus can have a look? (@Dissident93 and WikiOriginal-9:) Left guide (talk) 08:48, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I can’t figure out why it only takes numbers. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:16, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that if the total score is not specified (|Htotal=, |Rtotal=), the template sums all the quarter scores, and is probably complaining that it can’t do math on a dash. —Bagumba (talk) 17:46, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I tried leaving the quarter scores blank, but the total score would automatically be set to 0. Looks like we need to change the template. Speaking of changing the template, we need to change the header of the first column to Team (or Teams) while the Quarter header should be moved above the quarter numbers. It’s weird that team names are in the column titled “Quarter”. TheVoicelessWriter (talk) 22:57, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I was just genuinely curious how long we’ve used the O-line stats table over at Trevor Penning. Maybe I just haven’t been paying attention to lineman articles (a shame, I know), but it’s my first time seeing it. JTtheOG (talk) 20:13, 14 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve never seen that before either. Looks like it was first added by Pealingofthebell in January 2025. Left guide (talk) 20:34, 14 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t remember which article I picked it up from, possibly Terron Armstead, but it has existed for some time. Pealingofthebell (talk) 00:52, 15 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For what its worth, it has also existed on pages like Ryan Ramczyk, Joe Thuney, Tristan Wirfs and others for some time. It is an established table. Pealingofthebell (talk) 00:56, 15 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It’s actually been discussed before. I’ll see if I can find it in the archives. If I remember correctly, the general consensus was that statistics that aren’t often reported (like o lineman) shouldn’t be in their articles. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:15, 15 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like I am mostly remembering my view on the topic (which still stands lol). Here’s the relevant link tho: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 24#Offensive lineman stats. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:24, 15 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts on this? I worry that its definition is overly broad, as a comeback could be defined as any game where a team was once down and then won. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:13, 15 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree that its name is overly broad. As of right now, at least, there aren’t an excessive number of things in the category (though I didn’t check if the existing ones warrant being in there). Perhaps it could be renamed to something more specific like “Multi-touchdown comebacks” or something more exclusive like “Notable comebacks”. Useight (talk) 16:33, 16 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Has a definition even been assigned to this category? Assadzadeh (talk) 17:18, 16 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t think this is a good category because it seems to have a subjective inclusion criteria. Any dividing line we draw is probably going to be arbitrary and based on original research. Left guide (talk) 08:00, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The game tying 2 point conversion by The Seahawks has been referred to as the zachwards pass, perhaps a new article should be made documenting it. Dafootballguy (talk) 23:57, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not every play in the NFL needs its own article, especially one during the regular season that will probably be forgotten in a year. Assadzadeh (talk) 01:53, 20 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This was the game tying play that led to overtime and eventually a Seahawks overtime comeback victory, the largest 4th quarter comeback in franchise history. Dafootballguy (talk) 02:44, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless, it doesn’t meet the requirements of WP:GNG or WP:EVENTCRITERIA that would warrant a stand-alone article. Instead, details of the game could be included in 2025 NFL season, 2025 Los Angeles Rams season, and 2025 Seattle Seahawks season. Assadzadeh (talk) 03:11, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I found sources about the play such as [1], however I found the article List of nicknamed NFL games and plays which covers the zachwards pass. Dafootballguy (talk) 18:24, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that some editors feel the need to create an article about every game that has a controversial play (like this one), involves a comeback (see #Windy City Miracle below), or has a viral promo by a celebrity (see #2025 Kansas City Chiefs–Los Angeles Chargers game above). Heck, let’s just create articles about every NFL game this year, since I’m sure they all meet one of these criteria. Assadzadeh (talk) 18:41, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not all plays are the game tying play which leads to an overtime victory which is the largest in franchise history. Notable plays or games have articles, such as Immaculate Reception, Tuck Rule Game or Helmet Catch. Dafootballguy (talk) 18:44, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So what that it’s the largest comeback in franchise history? Are there articles about the other 31 teams’ comeback victories? The only exception should be if it was the largest comeback in league history, regular season or playoffs, which already have their own articles.

The reason why the games that you mention have a dedicated article is because they happened in the playoffs and were either controversial or notable. Assadzadeh (talk) 18:57, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The play tied the game which led to an OT win, clinching Seattle’s first playoff berth since 2022 and paving the way for Seattle to claim the number one seed in the NFC. Dafootballguy (talk) 19:00, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, it still doesn’t make the game WP:NOTABLE. However, since 2025 Los Angeles Rams–Seattle Seahawks game has already been created, it seems that at least one other editor agrees with you and therefore I don’t see the point in arguing further. Assadzadeh (talk) 19:14, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks for the clarification, doesn’t the article violate Wikipedia:DELAY Dafootballguy (talk) 19:15, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, my point exactly, which is why I don’t think any of the articles should have been created. As I suggested, these games could either be included in the overall season article or each individual team’s season article. Assadzadeh (talk) 19:23, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See 2021–22 NFL playoffs as an example. Doesn’t this violate WP:BIDIRECTIONAL?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 21:29, 20 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, removing them also avoids the WP:TCREEP there. —Bagumba (talk) 22:12, 20 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I just like to get some more eyes (and opinions) on this new article, called Windy City Miracle. I can’t find a single source calling it that and most of the sources used don’t even link to a direct story about it, so most of it looks like OR, anyway. As exicting as it was, I get the feeling the article’s author simply borrowed the term for last night’s came in hopes it would catch on. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 18:03, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn’t agree more. Please nominate it for WP:AfD, similar to 2025 Kansas City Chiefs–Los Angeles Chargers game (see discussion above and nomination). Assadzadeh (talk) 18:18, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

At least somebody could just add some more information to the page (Game summary, the Final Play, Box score and Aftermath) HarryPotter2011 (talk) 18:47, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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