Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities: Difference between revisions

Yesterday I wrote Hymen’s war terrific, about the “race” of George III‘s sons to marry and produce heirs. I am surprised to find no images depicting this race or even their marriages alone. Am I missing some? Carricatures or plain wedding depictions? Surtsicna (talk) 23:45, 24 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

“Race” as in “running fast”, not ethnicity, right? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What’s up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:23, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I can’t say I find it surprising that there are no images depicting something as abstract as a “race to marry and produce heirs”. What kind of image did you have in mind? Zacwill (talk) 02:56, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There’s “A SCENE in the New FARCE called the RIVALS or a Visit to the Heir Presumptive 1819”, described as a “satire on the Hanoverian race to produce an heir to the throne.” Clarityfiend (talk) 08:16, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly that kind, @Zacwill. Thanks, @Clarityfiend. If others manage to dig up more, I would be just as grateful. Surtsicna (talk) 09:46, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Surtsicna: The monument to Princess Charlotte here is striking, but I can’t find an image on Commons. TSventon (talk) 00:10, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My copy of Fulford’s “Royal Dukes” (Penguin Classic Biography edition) has Gilray’s caricature of the Princess Royal’s wedding (as seen at Charlotte, Princess Royal) as it’s cover illustration. The book does mention that at the time the participants in that farce were widely and pungently satirised in print and in cartoon. Daveosaurus (talk) 06:57, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

According to our article Andrew Young (poet, born 1885) “The disappearance of his brother David in discreditable circumstances in 1907 so affected him that he gave up his intention to become a barrister and instead studied theology at the local New College”. I would like to know more about David, the discreditable circumstances, and did he ever re-appear? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 12:33, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There’s a bit in this extract from a book about Andrew Young, and some criticism in this review of the book. Neither of the names makes it easy to search online, of course… —Wrongfilter (talk) 12:45, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Wrongfilter: Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 16:49, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Three queries. :-
1. In 2002 there was a recruitment event held in Harrow, My recollection is that it took place at Harrow Lesiure Centre, but current Google Streetview’s of that locale don’t match up with my memory of the area.

Between 1980 and 2005, there was a nationally respected model shop in Harrow. It closed around 2004(?), although some online directory sites still seem to list it over 20 years later!..

Was the area between Masons Avenue and the railway redeveloped in the 2000’s? (I recall a footpath by the side of the railway line, that doesn’t seem to exist in the current OpenStreetMap, or Google Streetviews. )

I don’t have British Newspaper archive access, and the online sites for local print newspapers, for 2002 (via wayback didn’t yeild anything) (Print editions of local ‘advertiser’ style papers in the United Kingdoms are unlikely to have been digitised at all.)
ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:07, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A suggestion you may already have explored: I believe that if you look on Google Earth Pro, you can set the date to earler years and get an idea of when redevelopments took place. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2025-31359-08 (talk) 23:59, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The last time you asked a question about Harrow, I advised you to join the Facebook group Harrow Area – Then and Now. Have you done that? —Viennese Waltz 10:32, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I haven’t (but your suggestion was noted.) (I don’t for reasons have an Acccount on Facebook.) I’m ideally looking for verifable print/photo sources, I can put in Inter-Library requests for. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:51, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I know nothing about Harrow, but it could be worth searching YouTube for videos uploaded by locals, to see if they cover the locations you are interested in. A search for Harrow 2000 brings up some promising results. (“Harrow 2002” returned a lot of less relevant videos; you could try other years.) — Verbarson  ^talk_edits 12:11, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I haven’t looked into the leisure centre yet, but possible answers to the other two:

• Re. the model shop: I’ve trawled the British Newspaper Archive. Newspaper adverts from the early 1990s give its name simply as “The Model Shop” and its address as 194 Station Road, south of Harrow and Wealdstone station at the junction of Bonnersfield Lane. It’s now a burger restaurant. This forum thread has a great deal of interesting historical information, including details of its earlier premises at 29–31 St Ann’s Road. Meanwhile, the Pinner Observer of 13 October 1994 ran a little Q&A with the owner, Arthur Cross (also referred to on that forum thread), on his 60th birthday. Among other things it stated he had been trading in Harrow for 40 years. It was still trading in 1999, when a news report described a child being temporarily blinded in an accident involving an airgun bought in the shop. Separately, this website states that it closed in mid-2005 and “the business has been taken over by Radley Models”, which was apparently based at Poulner, Hampshire, although its website no longer exists.
• Re. Masons Avenue: the area around the west end of Masons Avenue was redeveloped in the mid-1990s (1995–96, as far as I can tell) with the construction of the relief road (George Gange Way) which took traffic away from the High Street. The London Gazette of 18 April 1996 details the highway improvement Orders raised by the council. On the 1959 OS map I can see a footpath with stairs at the west end leading from Herga Road (close to the Masons Avenue junction) to The Bridge, the road which crosses the railway line just east of Harrow and Wealdstone station. This was exactly where a junction was built with the new George Gange Way, so the route of the footpath was altered – although it still exists (this Google StreetView capture shows it). I can’t see any other footpaths in the vicinity of Masons Avenue on old maps. I also found a Harrow Borough Council document online which discusses road improvements in the town centre. As an aside it states this: “The current [road] layout … dates back to the construction of the George Gange Way and Ellen Webb Drive relief roads in 1995/96, measures aimed at removing through traffic from the main shopping area of the High Street. Ellen Webb Drive and its continuation into Headstone Drive (West) became the east-west route transferring traffic from Canning Road/Headstone Drive route”. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 20:29, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you.

The building next to the Model Ship was an ex-cinema ( Cannon and then ABC for a time) and was derelict for a long time. ( https://www.cinematreasures.org/theaters/21137) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:33, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We write about C.H. “Buck” Stahl (died 2005) as the owner of Stahl House, but sources describe him as a “former professional [American] Football player”. What was his team, and his full name and dates? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy’s edits 14:59, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

His dates and full name are relatively easy: Clarence Henry “Buck” Stahl, 1912-2005. But I’ve not been able to find any WP:RS for any football career. –jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 19:29, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

According to [1] and [2], he worked in sales in the aviation industry. No mention of football. Chuntuk (talk) 13:18, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve found plenty of mentions of football, but nothing beyond mentions. –jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 17:13, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Are most Russian media and government websites still accessible in Western countries?–40bus (talk) 22:16, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

One thing I do know, is that some Russian(-language) media is restricted in Ukraine (even before the 2022 invasion). This includes RT and Yandex, Russia’s own search engine. JuniperChill (talk) 22:42, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Most Western countries don’t block them (though I suspect a lot of East European countries might under laws against communism or the like), and they probably don’t block Western countries’ access as it is propaganda after all. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:21, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I can confirm that RT News, Yandex and VKontakt social media platform are all accessible here in the United Kingdom.

However, RT’s television news service in the UK had their licence revoked by Ofcom within a month of the 2022 invasion, for failing “to comply with the due impartiality rules of [their] Broadcasting Code”. [3] Alansplodge (talk) 22:51, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What are the dimensions of a normal-sized matchbox? From neutron star:

Neutron star material is remarkably dense: a normal-sized matchbox containing neutron-star material would have a weight of approximately 3 billion tonnes…

Unfortunately the citations for this statement mention neither matchboxes nor the rest of the information in the sentence, so we can’t use them to calculate the volume of the matchbox. I’ve asked another neutron star question at WP:RDS, but it’s looking at the weight and density of the star material, not the size of matchboxes. Nyttend (talk) 04:05, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Our articles on matchboxes suggests that they “generally measure 5 x 3.5 x 1.5 cm”, or around 26.3 cubic centimeters. Meanwhile, if we say “approximately 3 billion tonnes” is somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5 billion metric tons, and neutron star density is somewhere between 3.7 x 10¹⁷ kg/m³ and 5.9 x 10¹⁷ kg/m³, this bounds the original volume assumed by whoever wrote that to between around 4.2 and 8.1 cubic centimeters, so I would say that the estimate might be off by a factor around 3-6. GalacticShoe (talk) 06:03, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In my experience, matchbox size can vary considerably. A long time ago, people used to collect matchboxes for this reason. I would argue, therefore, that there is no general measure. In 2025, people don’t smoke as much, and matches are rarely seen these days, but until recently in the US, it was popular for retail establishments to have their own matchboxes made for advertising purposes. As a side note, the final heyday for this kind of thing was the 1990s. Anyhoo, people who would often be active and dine out a lot would collect these things and either dump them in a large flower vase or if they were artistically inclined, mount them in a frame. I’m telling you that the “standard” size of a matchbox basically disappeared a very long time ago. It was likely true in, let’s say, the 1950s and 1960s, when there were few companies making them. It hasn’t been true in a very long time. Viriditas (talk) 21:49, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That’s very fair and I certainly haven’t come across a matchbox myself in a long time, possibly years; that being said, I do feel like the given size of 5 x 3.5 x 1.5 cm is reasonable, and a matchbox a third that size would be unusually small. But at the order of magnitude of billions of tonnes, a 3-6x difference is really just splitting hairs on my part. GalacticShoe (talk) 22:35, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I have just proven myself wrong. I just scoured my house for a single matchbox, as I knew I had an old one around. Indeed, I found the last matchbox made by the Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, circa 2012 in a drawer. It is exactly 5 x 3.5 x 1.5 cm. The fine print on the side says it was manufactured by Eddy Match, Pembroke, Ontario, but “Made in USA”, which seems to imply it was made in Port Huron, Michigan. Viriditas (talk) 22:50, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A normal matchbox would not be able to withstand the neutron degeneracy pressure. It would have to be manufactured from indestructibilium. Are these available in a 5 × 3.5 × 1.5 cm size?  ​‑‑Lambiam 08:04, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I work in a grocery store and we stock packs of multiple matchboxes in our grilling section. The given size matches (snicker) my recollection, but I am not at the store right now to verify. In my experience, unless we consider extra long matches, every matchbox I’ve seen has been that size. I don’t remember businesses having custom matchboxes. I do remember match books with the logos of hotels, restaurants, etc being given out by those businesses. —User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:44, 1 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There are at least five custom matchbox sizes. Until the 1990s, most restaurants, and some bars and clubs made their own matchboxes. Towards the end of this era, the sizes of the boxes started to vary more, with some of the more notable that I remember consisting of the “triangle” size used for weddings, the “mini” size that bars and clubs used to carry, and my personal favorite, the “long” and skinny, which I thought were cool. You can see images of all of these online. Virtually every restaurant had custom matchboxes made for them until maybe 20 years ago, and there were many different sizes to choose from. Matchbooks were a thing before the 1980s, and went out of a style a long, long time ago as people didn’t like them, and if you lived in a rainy climate they could easily get destroyed. I remember matchbooks basically disappearing from the restaurant, bar, and club scene in the 1990s as the higher end places started using custom matchboxes instead. By 1995, matchbooks seemed to be on their way out. Viriditas (talk) 00:33, 2 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Huh. The word “matchbox” to me immediately recalls the 250-count boxes, which are significantly larger than that. This spec sheet gives dimensions of 4.75 inches (12.1 cm) x 1.375 inches (3.49 cm) x 2.5 inches (6.4 cm).

Maybe not the best size comparison? — Avocado (talk) 16:33, 2 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See image above. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy’s edits 14:33, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The most interesting part of that image is that much of the artwork is reminiscent of crate label art from California farms in the late 19th to mid 20th century. Oddly, we don’t have a Wikipedia article about it. See also: commons:Category:Crate, can, and bottle label collection (California Historical Society) Viriditas (talk) 21:04, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Very beautiful art. He-who-knows-everything (talk) 11:24, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The video for Video Killed the Radio Star#Music video by The Buggles is about a child from the 1950s who was listening to the radio, but got transported to the future. I was wondering who played the child, but our article doesn’t mention it. Marnanel (talk) 09:46, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

An uncredited extra. Not Virginia Hey as seems to be a common misconception (although how, as she must’ve been nearly 20 at the time, I’ve got no idea). —Fortuna, imperatrix 11:00, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If the dates here on Wikipedia are to be believed, Hey would have been 27 at the time. Maybe the confusion comes from the fact that apparently Hey did appear in the video, but as the woman in the giant test tube, not the girl. I guess some people didn’t do their due diligence and just assumed that the “extra” female name in the credits must refer to the girl. I couldn’t find the name of the girl (or any information about her, really) either. Long is the way (talk) 14:10, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. Born in 1952,not 1962 as I (mis)read. So yeah, she’d be about twice the age of the girl. Which makes confusing her with the girl even more odd. —Fortuna, imperatrix 18:47, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Does these both decades look very different each other and how? ~2025-37176-86 (talk) 13:05, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To a historian of the 31st century (if there are still historians then), they will look very similar. For someone born in 1950, they may have looked more different while living through them. In general, it depends very much upon what one focuses (culture, economy, politics, technology, …?) and from which perspective (that of an Appalachian miner, a South-African police officer, a Vietnamese scholar of economics, …?). See our article on the 1970s and the 1980s and decide for yourself what strikes you as significant differences. In any case, the periodization in decades creates artificial boundaries  ​‑‑Lambiam 15:50, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mostly agree, but this is an interesting take that popped up on my feed recently. Matt Deres (talk) 17:59, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In the Anglosphere, the rise of Neoliberalism? Reaganomics in the USA and Thatcherism in the UK had profound effects on the economy and society as a whole. Whether this is a greater difference than between other decades is debatable; the 1960s were radically different from the 1950s for example. Alansplodge (talk) 20:03, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

One has a 7 and the other an 8. Blueboar (talk) 20:36, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The 1970s were post-pill, pre-AIDS. There’s a reason people joke about not remembering them; it seems like it was the last time for adults to have “fun” without as much consequence as there had been earlier or would be later. —Golbez (talk) 03:00, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What people mean by “the 1960s” culturally tends to refer to say 1963-1973 or so. Quite when the 1970s finished I’m not sure. Johnbod (talk) 03:20, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have heard it said that the 70’s ended on Disco demolition night – July 12, 1979… AKA “the day Disco died”. Blueboar (talk) 03:39, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There were far more home computers (likewise in small offices) in the 80s than in the 70s.

The first commercial automated cellular network (“1G”) was launched in Japan in 1979. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy’s edits 14:29, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Under the heading “Trinity”, Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable 18e (and earlier) mentions

Chinese [sic] have the triple goddess Pussa.[4]

Who is this goddess? We don’t have an article on her; Chinese gods and immortals doesn’t mention her; Triple deity only quotes Brewer. I can’t find anything obvious elsewhere. Marnanel (talk) 17:56, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps this is quite irrelevant, but our article Bodhisattva says that “Chinese Buddhists generally use the term pusa (菩薩)” to mean “bodhisattva”, i.e. “a person who has attained, or is striving towards, bodhi (‘awakening’, ‘enlightenment’) or Buddhahood”. This book, Asia in the Making of Europe, refers to “Kuan-yin, usually called simply Pussa (p’u-sa), the popular Chinese term for bodhisattva.” Kuan-yin seems to be Wikipedia’s Guanyin, who “has been more commonly depicted as female in China and most of East Asia since about the 12th century”. —Antiquary (talk) 18:48, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, that’s highly relevant! Re Kuan-yin, yes, she is Guanyin, who is more or less Avalokiteśvara in Indian etc Buddhism. As for Brewer – yet another wholly unreliable Victorian source we should not be bothering with. Johnbod (talk) 03:16, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair to Brewer’s, it records ‘Phrases and Fables’, with the latter including ” historical or literary allusions”. The ‘triple goddess’ thing was likely a mistaken idea about Pussa that some European had spread and which was mentioned in European literary works, so the publication (Brewer himself died in 1897, the 18th Edition was published in 2009) could be explaining those allusions without necessarily implying that they’re accurate . . .

. . . though it would be helpful if it mentioned that they aren’t. Perhaps someone should send a copy of this discussion to Susie Dent, who edited the most recent two editions of 2012 and 2018, so that a clarification can be included in the next if the mention of Pussa is still present.

(Amusing coincidence department. In 1991 I was offered an editorial position at the OUP, but for logistical and other reasons decided to turn it down. If I’d accepted it, I would have become a colleague of Ms Dent.) {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2025-31359-08 (talk) 07:29, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Transcultural turbulences : towards a multi-sited reading of image flows includes an image of “The Idol Pussa”, while suggesting that the name Pussa is a mis-reading of the source texts. (Sixteen arms, but no sign of a three-fold nature.) Further references, such as this may be found by searching Archive.org, but there is a lot of dross to eliminate. — Verbarson  ^talk_edits 18:24, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

some Latin Catholics and some Muslims use the above as a name..do Hindus or Buddhists use names of their deities or such figures? DMc75771 (talk) 23:09, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do not understand the question. Are you asking if Hindus and Buddhists mention Jesus/Mohammed? Viriditas (talk) 23:21, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

“do Hindus or Buddhists use names of their deities “ Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy’s edits 14:24, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes Hindu’s use the names of gods when naming children. Arjun, Hari, Chandra, Indira, Kali, Lakshmi, Naranya, Rama, Parvati etc etc are all common names. And yes it’s the same for Buddhist figures – names such as Ananda, Tenzin, Tara, Dolma, Jampa, etc etc. Nanonic (talk) 00:29, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@DMc75771 And yes, so do Buddhists. My name is a Buddhist name. Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:16, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The generally reliable John F. Burton claims^[1] that Ludwig Koch recorded (on wax cylinder or disc) a Quagga in Frankfurt Zoo. The subspecies is now extinct, and the recording supposedly lost.

However, Koch was born in 1881 and our article says that “…the quagga was extinct in the wild by 1878. The last captive specimen died in Amsterdam on 12 August 1883.” and “The specimen in London died in 1872 and the one in Berlin in 1875.”

So what is Burton talking about? Some other now-extinct species, perhaps? Or do we have the date of extinction wrong?

If Frankfurt did have a specimen, when did it die?

[I will post a pointer to this discussion, on the science ref desk.]

Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy’s edits 14:11, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect that Burton has misunderstood some account of Koch’s activities which used the word quagga in a looser sense than a modern zoologist would. The Dictionary of South African English website says that “In earlier times the distinctions between the different species were not always noted, but the name ‘quagga’ is now used primarily for the extinct Equus quagga, a zebra once found at the southern tip of Africa and now recognised, from genetic information, as a sub-species of E. burchelli” (my bolding). Its citations include:

1979 “Two boys found guilty of malicious injury to property after shooting a Quagga at their local zoo…worked weekends at the same zoo.”

1990 “Fifteenth annual sale of game — Werksplaas Tshipise. Game species:…15 Quagga.”

That might, incidentally, also explain my own faint memory of seeing film footage of a quagga when I was a child. All my life I’ve wondered what on earth it could have been. —Antiquary (talk) 19:23, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Koch (born in Frankfurt) was recording animals and birds by the age of 8/9 (“His 1889 recording of the song of a white-rumped shama (Kittacincla malabarica) is the first-known recording of bird song”), so it’s not improbable that he recorded a zebra at Frankfurt Zoo around that age.

From Quagga we know (as Antiquary mentions) that the name was applied to zebra in general in their native habitat (“The name is still used colloquially for the plains zebra” [Equus quagga]), and that quagga (now Equus quagga quagga) were first identified as a separate species only in 1778, so confusion is understandable. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2025-31359-08 (talk) 21:42, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Koch’s own memoir makes this claim, which is a bit questionable. I can’t find any evidence that Frankfurt Zoo ever had a quagga – but what it did have, according to this 1873 guide, was Burchell’s zebra, a closely related subspecies (Equus quagga burchellii instead of Equus quagga quagga). It’s possible that it was either labelled as a quagga when Koch was there, or (since he talks about it being the “last of the quagga species”) he retroactively labelled it as a quagga – it’s not extinct, but it was at one point believed to be so (genetic analysis has since revealed that some wild plains zebras are true Burchell’s). Smurrayinchester 13:15, 2 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I notice from its article that one of E. q. burchellii’s common names was/is bontequagga. It seems to me not unlikely that when the young Koch made his recording, Frankfurt Zoo’s specimen(s) was(were) labelled “Quagga”. (Zoos, I noticed decades ago, were sometimes slow to update their information panels.) {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 22:12, 2 December 2025 (UTC) ~2025-31359-08 (talk) 22:12, 2 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a reason on why did the Enlightenment caused the shift from religious lifestyle to a more secular lifestyle? This was a Renaissance that revived classical cultures and arts. But why did the religion decline much further in Europe on modern and contemporary times, since the early 21st century and further? How did the knowledge changed since 18th century? ~2025-37397-24 (talk) 20:19, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It’s not one thing, it’s the emergence of a new thing from the interaction of many things, in this case, the revival of rationalism, empiricism, and skepticism. And as new as it was, keep in mind how old these ideas are and how the Enlightenment was only one recent iteration. You can go back in time and see these things play out over and over again. “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes.” Or more to the point: “Art begins in imitation and ends in innovation.” Looking towards the past allowed them to bypass the religious institutional restraints on current ways of thinking and create something entirely new. This is how it is always done. We look to the past to create our future. Viriditas (talk) 21:56, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they also got tired of all the religion-driven wars. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What’s up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:06, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The European wars of religion, for which religion was always only one of the causes, mostly came to a halt in 1648. The Age of Enlightenment followed this, mostly in the 18th century, and religiosity amongst upper class people dropped. By then, people were no longer prosecuted for adhering to the wrong religion (mostly), but still weren’t allowed to build churches for the wrong religion. The wave of revolutions at the end of the 18th century, including the French Revolution, made states religiously neutral, removing most pressure on people to adhere to any religion in particular, but most charity was still provided by churches. The next step (and the core of the answer to the question) was the rise of socialism in the late 19th and early 20th century, so that people in difficult times could get support from the state, labour unions and socialist political parties. With the new idea that religion is the opium of the people, religiosity amongst the lower classes entered a sharp decline. When labour parties reached the peak of their power during the post-WW2 reconstruction and build the welfare state, religion no longer served a purpose. The next generation didn’t join church life.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the current wave of neoliberalism, sending society back towards the 1860s, when entire families lived in flooded single-room basements whilst their employers lived in palaces, and large scale immigration from more religious countries (mostly Muslims), would reverse this secularisation. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:54, 1 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

By then, people were no longer prosecuted for adhering to the wrong religion (mostly)

s/religion/denomination of Christianity

— Avocado (talk) 13:06, 3 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

People were prosecuted for being a Muslim or Jew. This cannot be labeled as adhdering to the wrong denomination of Christianity.  ​‑‑Lambiam 21:17, 3 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think Avocado meant to say, in some form, ‘wrong religion or wrong denomination of Christianity’ but the comment got borked in some way.

(I could make an argument that technically Islam can be classified as a denomination of Christianity (of a nontrinitarian form that was more widespread in the 7th and earlier centuries, but which has otherwise largely died out), but that’s not a discussion to be had here 🙂 .) {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2025-31359-08 (talk) 02:43, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This is vim‘s substitute command. Applying, in vim, the command

s/religion/denomination of Christianity

(the optional closing / is omitted) to the text

By then, people were no longer prosecuted for adhering to the wrong religion (mostly)

results in its being replaced by

By then, people were no longer prosecuted for adhering to the wrong denomination of Christianity (mostly)

On reconsideration, the intention behind this change is ambiguous. Rather than non-assertion of religious prosecution of Muslims and Jews before Enlightenment, the intention may have been to note their continued prosecution afterwards.  ​‑‑Lambiam 09:40, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To be picky, the syntax comes from sed, or I suppose originally from ed. It was picked up by vi, which I refuse to call “vim”. —Trovatore (talk) 22:45, 5 December 2025 (UTC) [reply]

Sorry for the ambiguity. Yes. I meant that while persecution of people following the “wrong” denomination of Christianity became much more rare, persecution of Muslims, Jews, and followers of non-Abrahamic religions continued. While in Western Europe some legal restrictions were loosened or lifted, discrimination continued; and in formerly more tolerant parts of Eastern Europe, in many cases persecution escalated. See also pogrom. (TBF, prosecution decreased afaik, with the Inquisition less actively pursued.) — Avocado (talk) 12:50, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not all countries were equally tolerant. In my country (Netherlands), Jews (the only significant non-Christian group) were tolerated (viewed with suspicion, but not burned at the stake or forced to convert) in the 17th–18th century, but only Protestant Christians could openly build places of worship. Tolerance was a good move financially and the Republic was ruled by money. Only in some Catholic-majority areas the Catholics were permitted to build their own churches (after the Protestant minority had taken the old Catholic churches, converted them to Protestantism and repaired them with public money). But given the large number of Jews who fled from Portugal to the Netherlands, I suppose the Portuguese were less tolerant. Maybe republics were generally more tolerant than monarchies. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:24, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

well, “only SOME Protestant Christians could openly build places of worship” – I have Remonstrant ancestors who weren’t Protestant enough for the Dutch authorities, and fled the Netherlands for France. There were some executions. This all tends to be written out of the self-congratulatory Dutch version of history. Johnbod (talk) 12:05, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

User:PiusImpavidus but see Antisemitism in the French Third Republic. Alansplodge (talk) 12:51, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but I was referring to the Age of Enlightenment and the word “prosecuted” means (to me) that is was state-sanctioned, using laws banning the wrong religion. Lynching people isn’t prosecuting people. Some antisemitism did occur (even today), but, apart from a few years of Nazi rule in the 1930-40s and maybe some exceptions I’m unaware of, this hasn’t been state-sanctioned in Europe for centuries. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:43, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I apologize. Many people say “prosecution” when they mean “persecution”, so I’d interpreted the intent as the latter based on the gestalt of the message. You were the one to introduce the term to the discussion, so you would know what you meant by it! — Avocado (talk) 13:31, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In Britain, persecution of Catholics in the 16th and early 17th centuries had less to do with any objection to their forms of worship and more to do with suspected loyalty to the Papacy, which had the stated aim of regime change in Britain and was supported in this by France and Spain. Alansplodge (talk) 13:04, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That’s only partly true, and not true at all for the first decades (Regnans in Excelsis is 1570). As with the generally less severe persecution of people who were too Protestant, there was a determination by the state to impose the form of religion chosen by it, and uphold the right of the state to make that choice, as well as widespread and often violent feelings among sections of the population against some “forms of worship” and abstract theological views. Johnbod (talk) 12:05, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Althought his oath to Hitler, was he remained loyal to Kaiser Wilhelm II in exile until his death? The Kaiser released all military personnel from their oath of allegiance on 28 November 1918. (Herwig, The German Naval Officer Corps, p. 264). —Simon Harley (Talk). 08:38, 3 December 2025 (UTC)[reply] It’s a question with no significance. What could Rommel, loyal or not (probably not), possibly have done for Willy while he was in exile? Drop off a bundt cake? Clarityfiend (talk) 11:56, 3 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The booklet “La Anarquia explicada a los niños” (“Anarchism explained to the children”) was published in 1931 by Max Bembo (a pseudonym of José Ruíz Rodríguez, aka Emmanuel José Antonio). Archive dot org has a copy of an undated later edition here, with a cover picture which is not attributed. There’s a sticker in the corner saying “1959”, but idk whether that’s the date of the printing, or the edition, or the picture.

Can anyone tell me who drew the picture, or its date? I’d like to know whether it’s under copyright. Marnanel (talk) 15:09, 3 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The book was published in 1931, and the cover of the re-issue is undoubtedly a faithful reproduction of the original cover, so the image, which looks to me like linocut but was perhaps a line drawing in a style suggestive of woodcut or linocut, was almost certainly created in 1931 or perhaps late 1930. It is signed “R. Pujol P.”, which possibly (or even probably) stands for “Ramón Pugol Pinxit“. This could be the artist Ramón Pugol (1907–1981), but this is a rather common Catalan name, and I see no other work attributed to this Pujol in a similar style.  ​‑‑Lambiam 21:12, 3 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ultimately, what government ministry oversees the biosecurity officers at international airports? Are they part of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry or Health, Disability and Ageing, or are they somehow answerable to both, or perhaps part of the Border Force? Unfortunately the Biosecurity in Australia article doesn’t address this question, and https://www.biosecurity.gov.au/about — a website operated by Agriculture etc. — doesn’t either. It’s been a while since I travelled internationally, so I can’t remember their uniforms. Nyttend (talk) 01:55, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to be a split responsibility. The current Administrative Arrangements Order, dated 13 May 2025, lists “Biosecurity, in relation to animals and plants” as the responsibility of the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, and “Biosecurity, in relation to human health” as the responsibility of the Department of Health, Disability and Ageing. How that actually works at the coalface, I do not know. — Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:01, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’d guess (following a breadcrumb trail from former agencies and departments) it would be the Department of Home Affairs. It would be handy though if someone who’s actually crossed the Australian border has any documentation they picked up at the time. Daveosaurus (talk) 23:11, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A quick Google suggests that the Depatment of Agriculture sets the standards [5], but the Border Force does the enforcement [6]. Anecdotally, Border Security: Australia’s Front Line is shown on British daytime TV and I recall seeing Border Force officers confiscating packages of strange SE Asian medicine from tearful travellers. Alansplodge (talk) 13:17, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

(blacklisted link: www.change.org/p/nominate-sam-altman-as-a-living-saint ) Is there really such a thing as living sainthood? I thought saints had to be deceased before canonization. Living saint just redirects to saint. Thanks, ~2025-38367-99 (talk) 06:10, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Someone’s either trying to funny or is deluded. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What’s up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:59, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The image in the petition gives a hint which of the two applies. But if the product of delusion, it is even funnier.  ​‑‑Lambiam 09:26, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Saint article mentions ‘living saints’ in two specific contexts, both out of Christianity – see the Buddhism and Islam sections there. —CiaPan (talk) 07:33, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If it can be established that there is an ancient cult of veneration of the blessed Samuel, vicarious financial martyr through his sacrificial loss of Other People’s Money, for which the nomination linked to provides some evidence, albeit only contemporary, the Pope might consider equivalent canonization.  ​‑‑Lambiam 09:19, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

But, as our Saint article notes, canonisation provides an official recognition of sainthood. Saints live among us; they’re just not yet recognised by the Church, and most will never be. (The article did say “…in Heaven” further down, but I just removed this because it relied on a citation from Pope Francis which also says there are saints on earth.) Marnanel (talk) 15:20, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The website referred to by the OP can be read as bitter sarcasm. The proposal for a living sainthood is an ironic emphasis on the societal benefits (vs a potential dystopia) of Sam Altman´s involvement in AI. To “AI or not to AI” is a complex and controversial topic. —Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 09:41, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As a cynical observation: If literate speakers of the English language can´t differentiate between a neutral declarative statement and satyrical hyperbole, we should do something to support NI (natural intelligence)… —Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:54, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Methinks the reference desk does what it can, but if you have further-reaching ideas, let’s hear them.  ​‑‑Lambiam 13:27, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks all. Yes I was particularly asking about the RCC or at least Christianity, since the petition proposes requesting the Pope to confer sainthood, iirc. Among non-Christian magesteria, I know that at least in the Church of Emacs, Saint IGNUcius is definitely still with us. For Altman, I hope that the dilemma is not resolved by the recent jump in DRAM prices resulting in Altman’s martyrdom. But if that happens, then at least he would be able to become a saint in the, um, canonical manner. ~2025-38367-99 (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The current article for the Bell X-2 research airplane states that test pilot Mel Apt was the first person to exceed Mach 3, doing so on September 27th 1956 moments before dying when the plane crashed. However, the article also states that, 20 days earlier, fellow test pilot Iven Kincheloe reached an altitude of 126,500 ft and a maximum speed of 2000 mph. That said, though, other sources I have read say Kincheloe’s top speed was 1500 mph, but the FAI accepts the 2000 mph figure, as does the US Air Force Museum. If Kincheloe did indeed reach 2000 mph, given the speed of sound at 126,000 feet, is it possible that he, not Apt, ought to be credited as the first person to reach Mach 3? ~2025-38533-33 (talk) 19:30, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Search engine enquiries which yielded impressive looking calculations inform me that at this altitude Mach 1 is approximately 704 mph (thus Mach 3 = 2,112 mph), but also (of course) that the speed of sound in air is dependent on its temperature and density, both of which can vary. I presume that these factors may have been measured at the time, and that the researchers might have mentioned if Kincheloe had indeed attained Mach 3; however the above suggests that given average conditions, Kincheloe fell at least 5.6% short.

In the absence of a Reliable source commenting on the matter, the above of course qualifies as speculation and Original research, so has no place in the article. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2025-31359-08 (talk) 20:54, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. That said, I’ve seen conflicting statements of exactly what Mach 1 at 126,000 ft is, with some placing it, as you do, at 704 mph but others placing it as low as 660 mph. I’ll have to do more research into this, but until I do I’ll refrain from changing anything in the article.

Thanks! ~2025-38533-33 (talk) 21:34, 4 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

An online dedicated “Speed of Sound Calculator“, linked to from Speed of sound § External links, returns 719 mph, assuming a temperature of 2.9 °F. This would make 2000&mph equivalent to (almost) Mach 2.8.  ​‑‑Lambiam 13:18, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

when did the press start using ww2
was it the invasion of Poland or 111118 DMc75771 (talk) 01:23, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The earliest cite in the OED Online is for 1919, when the Manchester Guardian used “World War No. 2” as a heading. (Obviously they were speculating about the future.) The next cite is from Time (magazine) in 1939, a week after the invasion of Poland: “Some of the diplomatic juggling which last week ended in World War II was old-fashioned international jockeying for power.” —~2025-38436-32 (talk) 07:08, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well found. This seems important enough that I uploaded and transcribed the article.

Oddly enough, it wasn’t speculating about the future: it was describing the social conditions after WW1 as a new kind of “war”. Marnanel (talk) 15:04, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note that the term “Second World War” is official the British designation and follows established usage; there is no Boer War II or Anglo-Dutch War III. Alansplodge (talk) 13:24, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That is almost the same question as “When did ‘The Great War’ become ‘World War One‘?” — Verbarson  ^talk_edits 13:43, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How does one become a Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States? I know one has to graduate from law school and become a lawyer to be appointed as a judge by the President of the United States. Is there an age and citizenship requirement? Do justices get VIP treatment like bodyguards due to their high-ranking status? Are they considered very important persons due to them being high-ranking government officials? Are they considered to be celebrities? WJetChao (talk) 06:40, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Supreme Court is established by Article Three of the United States Constitution. As far as I can see it does not require any qualifications at all for who may sit on the court, not even age or citizenship, much less status as a lawyer. I do not know whether Congress has established any such qualifications by statute. I imagine that would be within their authority; this does not seem to be explicit in the article, but they do establish, for example, the number of justices. —Trovatore (talk) 06:58, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For the procedure and requirements, see Nomination and confirmation to the Supreme Court of the United States.

VIP-hood is not a formal status; the level of deference with which the SCOTUS justices are treated is up to any hosting organization or similar. The US is somewhat peculiar in that many citizens can name all SCOTUS members. In most countries, the appointment of members of the highest national judicial court is not a news item. An overwhelming majority of people would not be able to name even a single member of this court and would also not recognize their names, and the members will not expect, in general, any special treatment beyond standard courtesy.  ​‑‑Lambiam 12:37, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

According to data from the Manifesto Project Database, the ANAP’s election manifesto in the 1999 Turkish general election suddenly shifted sharply to the left compared to 1995 — to the point that it became more left-wing than established social-democratic parties such as the CHP and the DSP. Statistically, it jumped from being the second-most right-wing party to the most left-wing one.

This really surprised me, because in my impression the ANAP has always been a center-right party. So the question is: Did the ANAP actually undergo a major ideological shift during this period, or is there a problem with the Manifesto Project Database’s coding/methodology, or is something else going on? Ataled (talk) 11:53, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

(ANAP refers to the Motherland Party (Turkey).  ​‑‑Lambiam 12:39, 5 December 2025 (UTC))[reply]

I’ve not looked at the Manifesto Project Database, but I suppose that any appearance of a shift to the left was an optical illusion designed to deceive the electorate. If so, it did not help. The government at the time was an ANAP-led coalition whose other members were the Democratic Left Party and the Democrat Turkey Party. ANAP lost 46 of its 132 parliamentary seats in the 1999 Turkish general election, a stunning defeat. To remain in the government after this defeat, they had to join again a coalition, now led by the Democratic Left Party but also containing the far-right Nationalist Movement Party (think Grey Wolves), which they did without qualms.  ​‑‑Lambiam 13:00, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What is the root of the names of Maria Yellow Horse Brave Heart? Brave Heart is used as her de facto family name in the article… but I don’t assume that she was born into a family with this family name & has received the given names Maria, Yellow, and Horse?! —KnightMove (talk) 14:19, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Why not? Dr Brave Heart is Lakota, and this is the way Lakota names work. You’ve probably heard of Sitting Bull or Crazy Horse. Marnanel (talk) 18:55, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, but that does not help directly – even the less as those persons were far from having family names. Was she named Yellow Horse at first, Brave Heart later, or the other way round? Or otherwise? Who gave her the “White” name Maria then? —KnightMove (talk) 21:29, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps Wikipedia should have an article on Native American naming customs, like we have on Roman naming conventions, Naming customs of Hispanic America and Naming conventions of the Tamilakam. Lacking this, here is an article titled “The Multifaceted Native American Naming Tradition”.  ​‑‑Lambiam 22:09, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It appears she’s still alive. Maybe the OP could write to her and ask. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What’s up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:27, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like her profile has a phone number and email address for contact here aaronneallucas (talk) 20:29, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think I will bother her with this and just accept that it is unknown. As she, a bit inconsistently, treats either “Brave Heart” or “Yellow Horse Brave Heart” as her de facto family name, I will just accept that these are two Lakota names she has received at any stages in her life. —KnightMove (talk) 22:01, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It’s likely to be known to her. It comes down to how badly you want to know the answer? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What’s up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:20, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Big Mel Gibson fan? Clarityfiend (talk) 23:46, 5 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I did wonder if she was Scottish? HiLo48 (talk) 03:15, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A 1952 obituary (Newspapers.com link) mentions its subject Mr. Irion graduating with a “Pd. B.” in 1904 from Southeast Missouri State College before getting an A.B. and B.S. in Education in 1911.

What is the full name for the academic degree “Pd. B.”? It’s not clear to me what degree that would be, issued before a Bachelor of Arts and a Bachelor of Science. Lovelano (talk) 04:51, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t know the answer, but FYI, you need a newspapers.com subscription to view that page. —Viennese Waltz 05:23, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Probably “Bachelor of Pedagogy”, as mentioned on p.316 of this book [7] (p.118 of the pdf). —Viennese Waltz 05:30, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, Southeast Missouri was a Normal school in 1904. DuncanHill (talk) 16:37, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Our article San Ferry Ann is illustrated with an alleged poster for the film. The poster is sourced to IMDB. The poster is obviously an over-painting of the poster for Father Came Too. Is it a genuine poster or something someone made up one day and which ended up on the internet? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 01:10, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem highly suspicious. Wilfrid Brambell looks nothing like the obvious caricature of James Robertson Justice, and neither he nor David Lodge even have beards in the film. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:33, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There’s an explanation here on a collector’s site; “A terrible mishmash of a poster where apparently the Australian poster artist had no original U.K. material of San Ferry Ann ( 1965 ) at hand to copy from“. Abductive (reasoning) 10:49, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have websearched for the original poster art for San Ferry Ann without success. The British Film Institute archives website is currently experiencing technical difficulties. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2025-31359-08 (talk) 03:26, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks all. I take it the triangular “Passed for general exhibition” logo is Australian then? DuncanHill (talk) 14:40, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The classification was also be British;^[8] it appears to have been common in several regions of the realm. But the triangle logo appears to have been specifically Australian.^[9] In fact, the Australian Classification Board uses a triangle to this day, but now with just a large 𝗚 as text.  ​‑‑Lambiam 16:34, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There’s a song by Pino Daniele called “Je so’ pazzo” (covered by Neri per Caso) in which the singer is speaking as Masaniello. It implies that he painted his face black (I don’t use the word “blackface” because that comes with a different cultural context).

Lyrics:

Je so’ pazz, je so’ pazz
Ma chi dice che Masaniell
Poi nero non sia più bell?
Non sono menomat
Sono pure diplomat
E la faccia nera l’ho dipinta per essere notat

But I can’t find anything that says even that this happened, much less why. I tried asking Google Masaniello si dipinse la faccia di nero?, and the AI summary says yes, but when you go into the deep dive it says no. Did Daniele just invent this, or is it part of some folk account? —Trovatore (talk) 05:05, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do not speak Italian but I have read that idiomatically, a black face in Italian may refer to a gloomy or disappointed or angry facial expression. Is that a possible explanation? Cullen328 (talk) 08:49, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Masianello is described as bruno di carnagione,^[10] and the terracotta statue of Masaniello by Raffaele Vaccarella has indeed been given a rather dark complexion. Perhaps this plays a role.  ​‑‑Lambiam 16:15, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]